• TheMadFool
    13.8k
    Of late I've been unable to feel pain or any negative emotion like anger, jealousy, sorrow. I don't miss these emotions very much but I'm afraid to lose empathy.

    I feel empathy is a necessary part of social existence. It oils the gears that makes for a good social life. Also I feel it is a very important part of being a good human being whatever that means.

    I don't think I totally un-empathetic but the physical reactions to it like the heart beating a little faster or that drop of tear in the eye are all gone.

    I don't know if that's a good thing.

    If I were Buddhist I would say good because its teachings, although hedonistic in principle, call for controlling our emotions especially the negative ones.

    But if it were up to me I'd say that it's not good. To me emotions are like the phosphorescent dots on an old TV. They bring color to life and there's, I feel, magic in that. Let's say it makes life worthwhile in my view. The tears of shared pain and the laughter of shared joy are important to me.

    What do you think?

    Is this nirvana?

    What should I do?

    Advice...
  • unenlightened
    9.2k
    Sounds more like depression to me. Sounds bad. Find someone to talk to about it in meatspace. I could be wrong, I hope so.
  • BC
    13.5k
    So, what has been going on in your life over the last couple of years? Does this trend of less labile emotions cover the last few days, weeks, months or years? How old are you? (age makes a difference in how we respond). So does psychological stability. If you were formerly unstable and emoting all over the place, then this trend towards less emoting is perhaps a good thing. If you are 40 years old now and comparing yourself to when you were 30, the change is probably normal.

    The world is full of sorrow and at some point we have to find a way of distancing ourselves from its immediacy if we are to be of any use to anyone. "Distance" doesn't mean callousness or indifference. It just means your reactions are not so immediate.

    I can't tell whether this is a negative trend. Edit: Just a guess from a non-expert, but it's probably not nirvana.
  • BC
    13.5k
    I've been unable to feel pain or any negative emotion like anger, jealousy, sorrow.TheMadFool

    How about the positive emotions of joy, excitement, curiosity, etc.?
    If you are experiencing a flat affect across the emotional range, then I would agree with Unenlightened that it sounds like depression. Have you been actually, and formally "depressed" (like, diagnosed) before?

    Other signs of depression are:

    inability to concentrate
    difficulty with memory
    sleeping poorly or sleeping too much
    substantial weight gain or weight loss
    thoughts about suicide (recurrent, with or without a plan)
    lack of energy
    and then, inability to feel positive emotions. But this is just one symptom of several that one would expect to see in a depressed person.

    What you should do...? Where should you go? That depends on what you are doing now and where you are now. As the cat said to Alice, "If you don't know where you are going, then it doesn't matter how you get there."
  • Artemis
    1.9k

    Isn't worry about one's current mental state an emotion and a negative one at that?
    In any case, it doesn't sound much like nirvana to me, since you're supposed to enjoy/like/be content with nirvana.
    It could be depression as others have pointed out. (In which case I hope you find some way to get out of the funk!)
    But it could be a natural phase of emotional growth. Are you simply not sweating the little things? Or are there things that relatively objectively should have made you angry or sad and failed?
  • deletedmemberwy
    1k
    If it is depression, eventually you will barely recognize any emotion and just barely survive life. Negative emotions are easier to recognize than the good ones...
  • Ying
    397
    Is this nirvana?TheMadFool

    "THE RIGHT MIND AND THE CONFUSED MIND

    The Right Mind is the mind that does not remain in one place. It is the mind that stretches throughout the entire body and self.

    The Confused Mind is the mind that, thinking something over, congeals in one place.

    When the Right Mind congeals and settles in one place, it becomes what is called the Confused Mind. When the Right Mind is lost, it is lacking in function here and there. For this reason, it is important not to lose it.

    In not remaining in one place, the Right Mind is like water. The Confused Mind is like ice, and ice is unable to wash hands or head. When ice is melted, it becomes water and flows everywhere, and it can wash the hands, the feet or anything else.

    If the mind congeals in one place and remains with one thing, it is like frozen water and is unable to be used freely: ice that can wash neither hands nor feet. When the mind is melted and is used like water, extending throughout the body, it can be sent wherever one wants to send it.

    This is the Right Mind.

    THE MIND OF THE EXISTENT MIND AND THE MIND OF NO-MIND

    The Existent Mind is the same as the Confused Mind and is literally read as the "mind that exists." It is the mind that thinks in one direction, regardless of subject. When there is an object of thought in the mind, discrimination and thoughts will arise. Thus it is known as the Existent Mind.

    The No-Mind is the same as the Right Mind. It neither congeals nor fixes itself in one place. It is called No-Mind when the mind has neither discrimination nor thought but wanders about the entire body and extends throughout the entire self.

    The No-Mind is placed nowhere. Yet it is not like wood or stone. Where there is no stopping place, it is called No-Mind. When it stops, there is something in the mind. When there is nothing in the mind, it is called the mind of No-Mind. It is also called No-Mind-No-Thought.

    When this No-Mind has been well developed, the mind does not stop with one thing nor does it lack anyone thing. It is like water overflowing and exists within itself. It appears appropriately when facing a time of need.

    The mind that becomes fixed and stops in one place does not function freely. Similarly, the wheels of a cart go around because they are not rigidly in place. If they were to stick tight, they would not go around. The mind is also something that does not function if it becomes attached to a single situation.

    If there is some thought within the mind, though you listen to the words spoken by another, you will not really be able to hear him. This is because your mind has stopped with your own thoughts.

    If your mind leans in the direction of these thoughts, though you listen, you will not hear; and though you look, you will not see. This is because there is something in your mind. What is there is thought. If you are able to remove this thing that is there, your mind will become No-Mind, it will function when needed, and it will be appropriate to its use.

    The mind that thinks about removing what is within it will by the very act be occupied. If one will not think about it, the mind will remove these thoughts by itself and of itself become No-Mind.

    If one always approaches his mind in this way, at a later date it will suddenly come to this condition by itself. If one tries to achieve this suddenly, it will never get there.

    An old poem says:

    To think, "I will not think"--
    This, too, is something in one's thoughts.
    Simply do not think
    About not thinking at all.
    "

    -Takuan Soho, "The Unfettered Mind"
  • TheMadFool
    13.8k
    Sounds more like depression to me. Sounds bad. Find someone to talk to about it in meatspace. I could be wrong, I hope so.unenlightened

    I'm not depressed. I never knew or felt depression. I've had strong emotions though. I've cried for a lot of things. Haven't laughed as much but, on the whole, I've swung up and down the emotional landscape but never has it been a long trend. It's like living in a place with erratic weather. It's gloomy, bright, rainy, cloudy, but no single long term pattern.

    Is this good?

    I can't tell whether this is a negative trend. Edit: Just a guess from a non-expert, but it's probably not nirvana.Bitter Crank

    :lol:

    See? I can laugh but I can't cry. It's strange because I've always thought of myself as emotional. I'm not so worried about positive emotions. I still feel happy and it feels like my life has a purpose. What I'm concerned about is that I've stopped feeling for other people. I used to care about things like my family, friends, animals, the environment. Now it's all gone. I don't feel anything about these things now. Of course I haven't given up on society. I still think I have to be a responsible member of family and society but there's no emotion attached to these thoughts. I miss that.

    But it could be a natural phase of emotional growth.NKBJ

    Growth? Yes and No. Yes because I've always liked machines. Am I becoming one? No because I think I've lost part of being human.



    Thanks. I wonder if my mind is becoming something, something I don't want. I want to hold on to my empathy. It's valuable to me but I'm afraid I'm losing it becoming ice as you said.
  • Ying
    397
    Thanks. I wonder if my mind is becoming something, something I don't want. I want to hold on to my empathy. It's valuable to me but I'm afraid I'm losing it becoming ice as you said.TheMadFool

    I'm not saying you have the right mind. I'm saying you're confused. Apparently with a sprinkle of inflation, too. Your mind isn't like "water", obviously. Otherwise you wouldn't be making a thread like this one.
  • TimeLine
    2.7k
    Of late I've been unable to feel pain or any negative emotion like anger, jealousy, sorrow. I don't miss these emotions very much but I'm afraid to lose empathy.

    I don't think I totally un-empathetic but the physical reactions to it like the heart beating a little faster or that drop of tear in the eye are all gone.

    But if it were up to me I'd say that it's not good. To me emotions are like the phosphorescent dots on an old TV. They bring color to life and there's, I feel, magic in that. Let's say it makes life worthwhile in my view. The tears of shared pain and the laughter of shared joy are important to me.
    TheMadFool

    I think you have misunderstood empathy. For me, it is predominantly the motivational structure that enables us to act with righteousness or that quality of applying moral action with the intent of helping others. How is crying or feeling intense emotion going to help anyone other than satiate your imagined archetype of goodness?

    I have always loved the saying, beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. A sociopath can cry in order to manipulate and control her subjects as well as avoid responsibility, just as much as she can pretend to feel sorry for people in order to fulfil the positive image programmed by society, but it is all talk and no action. A Kardashian who wears tonnes of make-up and is some pawn for popularity may have those "nice" qualities, but what exactly do they do?

    You are what you do. I work with disadvantaged children and some of these girls have told me stories that made me physically ill, here is an example, true story and one of many.

    One young girl aged 16 who arrived as a refugee from Africa was extremely introverted and very unhappy. She was not enrolled in school and seemed all but ready to give up. I knew I needed to make her speak, she would not look up at me and would give one worded responses. So, I decided to write her life story and for eight months she would come and see me every week and tell me a little piece of her past, a past where she experienced near starvation, where several of her siblings died, where she was raped, fled a war-torn country, spend years in a refugee camp in the middle of the desert, before sitting with me. What the fuck was I complaining about with my first-world problems?

    In the process, I enrolled her in school, tutored her with her homework, helped her make friends with other girls that I was working with, took them out to the movies, brought them some trendy clothes to help them fit in, and finally - upon passing - helping her to get into the course she wanted. I also started a facebook account for her so that she would start one and get herself involved in social networking to enable her to feel connected. I then printed her life-story into a book (just for her) and gave it to her as a gift. Not only is she open and talkative now, but because I believed in her, she believed in her and now wants to make a difference in the world. She see's my happiness and wants to create that for herself and she calls me her big sister.

    She is one of so many and I hope to continue building on that, because that is what empathy is. I feel the need to do good, I feel that people don't deserve to be unhappy or sad and I want to improve that to the best of my ability that motivates me to take action. Then comes the shared joy when the result is positive.

    Having the courage to take that responsibility is key. If you are not feeling anything and are not doing anything either, I would call that a type of disillusionment or detachment that stems from an underlying misery or unhappiness. You need to find the source of that unhappiness and counter it.
  • Ying
    397
    "The monk Fuyō Dōkai, whilst on Mount Daiyō, once asked Tōsu, “The thoughts and sayings of the Buddha’s Ancestors are like the tea and rice of everyday life. Putting these thoughts and sayings
    aside for the moment, is there any word or phrase you might have for the sake of others?”
    Tōsu answered, “You, right now, say! The Emperor inside the capital rules it, so does he have to look back to previous emperors of legendary times, like Yü, T’ang, Yao, and Shun?”
    Just when Daiyō was intent on opening his mouth, Tōsu picked up his ceremonial hossu and covered Daiyō’s mouth with it, saying, “At the very moment when you gave rise to the intention to realize Buddhahood, you immediately deserved thirty blows."
    Thereupon, Daiyō opened up to his enlightenment and, after having bowed in deepest respect to Tōsu, immediately took his leave.
    Tōsu called out to him, “Come back a minute, acharya!”*
    When Daiyō did not turn his head around, Tōsu said, “Have you, my disciple, arrived at the place where there is no doubt?”
    Daiyō covered his ears with his hands and left.
    "
    -Dogen Zenji, "Shobogenzo", ch. 62.
  • ArguingWAristotleTiff
    5k
    See? I can laugh but I can't cry. It's strange because I've always thought of myself as emotional. I'm not so worried about positive emotions. I still feel happy and it feels like my life has a purpose. What I'm concerned about is that I've stopped feeling for other people. I used to care about things like my family, friends, animals, the environment. Now it's all gone. I don't feel anything about these things now. Of course I haven't given up on society. I still think I have to be a responsible member of family and society but there's no emotion attached to these thoughts. I miss that.TheMadFool

    I realize that this might be a stretch but is it possible that you have just come of the age, where you realize what "is" in your control and what "is not" within your control?

    The reason I say this, is because for me it was somewhere between 17 and 21 years old, that I started to notice similar feelings of lack of empathy for others, even though I cared about them. Things that used to make me cry no longer had that affect on me, things that used to make me laugh became harder to find humor in, in fact I had to start looking for things to make me laugh, almost forcing myself to enjoy what others were.

    When I did talk to a therapist I surprised myself when I told him that I would be in a public place by myself and I found hearing the laughter of others irritating, which is the opposite of who I had been, usually leading the guffaw. There were some situational things that I had to work through but in the end, it turned out what I was experiencing was a reconciliation between how I expected things to be and the reality that was before me.
  • BC
    13.5k
    I think your assessment is on the right track. I don't know how old Mad Fool is, but it could be maturation that he is experiencing.
  • deletedmemberwy
    1k
    Thanks. I wonder if my mind is becoming something, something I don't want. I want to hold on to my empathy. It's valuable to me but I'm afraid I'm losing it becoming ice as you said.TheMadFool

    I think your mind can be shaped, but suppressing emotions don't shape your mind in a positive way. Not sure if you are suppressing them or not, not accusing you of it, but I can only share what I have experienced.
    I suppress emotions to a dangerous level. It started by suppressing negative emotions because I had the mentality to never let people see me upset, just stare numbly at whoever was trying to make me upset and let it go. It continued to get worse as I started suppressing them even when I was by myself because I couldn't justify those emotions, then eventually the light went dark. Life became an empty dream, dry and flavorless. The good became invisible, and I was left with dammed up river negative emotions.
    Not sure if I am helping anything here...
  • Hanover
    12.8k
    Comfortably numb is Pink Floyd, not Nirvana.
  • Baden
    16.3k
    I did laugh. Shame on me.
  • praxis
    6.5k
    I still feel happy and it feels like my life has a purpose. What I'm concerned about is that I've stopped feeling for other people. I used to care about things like my family, friends, animals, the environment. Now it's all gone. I don't feel anything about these things now.TheMadFool

    Generally speaking, Buddhist practice tends to enhance emotions (including the sad varieties) and empathy, because there's less discursive thoughts which can cloud or dampen these feelings. So feelings may be stronger but they subside more rapidly. Non-dwelling is the Buddhist way.

    Are you often lost in thought, such as philosophizing?
  • Gord
    24
    OP, i think you are becoming a man.
  • gurugeorge
    514
    This isn't Tumblr lol

    But it sounds like ataraxia rather than nirvana. Nirvana is ceasing to understand yourself as a queer kind of thing that's situated vaguely behind the eyes, looking out at the world; IOW it's the cessation (usually at first momentary, a "glimpse", then over time one gets in the saddle - or out of the saddle, rather :) ) of the ordinary, everyday sense of self.

    Epicurean ataraxia is more like equanimity, tranquility, etc. You stay within a fairly muted range of emotions and desires and take the world as it comes.

    They are kind of related, not a million miles from each other (ataraxia might be one kind of natural result of nirvana for some people), but the one is a gestalt switch as a result of specific kinds of training (e.g. meditation), the other is better understood as a form of ethico-psychological training for facing a world rightly understood, which may result in a habituated equanimity.
  • ArguingWAristotleTiff
    5k
    OP, I think you are becoming a man.Gord

    Wise words~
  • Shiva Surya Sai
    4
    If you're a teenger it'll happen on and off for years. If you aren't you probably have gone through acute stress disorder. However consider this, do you mean not feeling excited about a party everyone else is excited about? Or not feeling excited when you're with your girlfriend? Or not feeling only anger when someone steals from you? It all depends on the context. Some people hate complication so much, they wouldn't feel a thing when their parents die. Their emotional systems aren't very strong but they're perfectly fine. They only feel "bad feelings" when something happens to them or anyone they're responsible for

    Either that or you're becoming an introvert who also cares very less which makes you emotionally less active. And not feeling jealousy could be sign of a practical mind. Some men develop this way, its just how they're born with I guess. Some people tend to be over emotional in early stages of life and when emotions become balanced later they feel something is wrong

    Test yourself though. If you're a guy imagine someone cheats you, lies to you about your girlfriend and while you're confused and distracted away he lies to her about you and gets closer to her and takes her over and laughs at you every time you watch her with him and even she refuses you now. If you're not infuriated, that is definitely a problem

    Also some people need more emotional stimulus like people watching ISIS just to feel sad ( yes its a thing )

    It is very complicated and you should talk to someone your age and your type if they feel the same way
bold
italic
underline
strike
code
quote
ulist
image
url
mention
reveal
youtube
tweet
Add a Comment

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.