What are the distinct set of circumstances? — chatterbears
A slave owner could point to a set of circumstances, as well as have others that can relate and indentify with the slave owner’s position. — chatterbears
It depends on what your moral foundation is based upon. And if you have no foundation you can point to, then you are basically incapable of discerning right from wrong. Because I base my morality on improving the well-being of sentient beings. If it was possible for me to save a baby from a burning house, without putting myself at great risk, it would be wrong for me to not save the baby, because I would be allowing the baby to have a diminished well-being. If my goal is to improve/consider the well-being of sentient beings, saving the baby would be in my framework.
It all depends on the risk factor. Saving a baby from a burning house is of high risk. And I wouldn’t say it is wrong for someone to not save a baby if their own life was at great risk. But if they were at a low (or nonexistent) risk, then it would be wrong. Similarly, you aren’t at any risk to stop eat animals. All you need to do is switch your diet. — chatterbears
Who are you to say that physical pain is worse than mental hardship? When a child is molested and carries that mental hardship with them for the rest of their lives, is that worse, or not as worse as you burning your hand while steaming your veggies? Pain is a mental state, not a physical state. Damage to your body is a physical state, which your mental state represents as pain. We can eliminate physical pain with drugs, but not so much with mental anguish.It's extremely ignorant to conflate mental hardship with physical pain. The pain I am referring to is physical pain, which is an evolutionary trait. — chatterbears
I mean, sorry Sap, but as much as I have enjoyed our discussion for entertainment purposes, your final statement about basically being okay with eating a mentally disabled human is just a hilarious example of biting the bullet.
I don't recall anyone saying it here, but I am reminded of how ironic it is when people think vegans are crazy or ridiculous, when all we're saying is "don't eat the cows, just eat a veggie burger" and omnis say things like "in order to justify my cow burger, it's okay to eat a human burger."
But I do appreciate the discussion with both of you! — NKBJ
When we exercise, we experience physical pain, but we keep doing it for the health and social benefits. Physical pain teaches you what is dangerous to your body and what isn't. We need pain in order to survive. It evolved for a reason. — Harry Hindu
It is not a rare case for someone to end their lives. People do it every day. — Harry Hindu
If it is about pain that you are worried about, then we can kill animals without them feeling any pain. If it is life you are worried about, then you kill life every time you eat a head of lettuce and are being inconsistent yourself. Who are you to determine which organism gets to live simply because of the arbitrary boundary you have chosen of having a nervous system or not. — Harry Hindu
Who are you to say that physical pain is worse than mental hardship? — Harry Hindu
But there's no good reason for thinking that they are. — Sapientia
I can intuitively know that there's something wrong about it. — Sapientia
And I eat meat because I enjoy doing so, whether it's right or wrong. — Sapientia
There is no 'moral' connection between me and roadkill. There is no pain I can cause to the animal, and therefore the only concern (if I were to eat it) would be health concerns. Animals and Humans both die as a result of our current transportation. But it isn't specific to animals, as many people die as well in car accidents.but they do still have to accept some undesirable consequences such as the moral desirability of eating roadkill. — jastopher
As I stated in this thread before, moral dilemmas (such as this one you have provided) are completely separate from moral consistency. But I will still answer your question."would you kill an animal in order to save a starving child?" — jastopher
What about killing a severely mentally-disabled person to feed a starving child? — jastopher
There may be a justification for killing and eating the flesh of other animals, and for not killing and eating that of our own species, but it has not been put forward on this thread. — jastopher
There may be a justification for killing and eating the flesh of other animals, and for not killing and eating that of our own species, but it has not been put forward on this thread. However, so far, there isn't an argument for never killing and eating the flesh of other animals either. — jastopher
I would kill an animal to save a starving child, because I believe the child(human) has more value than an animal. — chatterbears
So you claim... — chatterbears
This is shaky grounds for what you would base moral decisions on. I'd rather use reason and logical consistency instead of "feelings" or "intuition". — chatterbears
And slave owners enjoyed owning slaves. — chatterbears
Is justification needed? — Michael
If you're happy with a war of attrition, you can use the rhetorical strategy of repeatedly demanding that your interlocutor do all the work in the hope that he or she will eventually give up.
If you're genuinely interested in the question, then you may wish to attempt to justify your actions even it's only to yourself. — jastopher
I don't eat meat because I don't need to. — Buxtebuddha
I'm just eating a hamburger. If you want to accuse me of behaving unethically then surely the burden is on you to support that accusation? — Michael
Someone who aids and abets the killing of an animal is responsible for aiding and abetting the killing of an animal, not for the killing of an animal. — Michael
In principle, is there anything I could say that would convince you that you were behaving unethically? — jastopher
But veganism IS cult-like. It is one thing to talk about the pragmatic health or environmental benefits. It is another to want to take over the world with an absolutist moral prescription. — apokrisis
So how does one actually prove that something is right or wrong? — Michael
but then how do they justify the claim that it is wrong to cause suffering? — Michael
So you admit to speciesism? — jastopher
And comparing eating meat to owning slaves is just silly. — Sapientia
So you admit to speciesism?
— jastopher
Not in the way you think I am. — chatterbears
That's like saying someone who shoots another person is only responsible for pulling a trigger, and is not responsible for his or her death.
Actions have consequences. Your aiding and abetting leads to the death of animals. You know that your money will be used in this fashion. Therefore, you are co-responsible for it. The fact that there is a step between these two things doesn't remove the causality. — NKBJ
By accepting some of the basic premises. — jastopher
Because you wouldn't accept another living being causing you to suffer needlessly, would you? No, which makes you hypocritical and causes you to have inconsistent ethics. — chatterbears
Then what if I don't accept the premise that it is wrong to kill any animal that can feel pain? — Michael
I'll take that as a yes. — jastopher
Why not do what I like, and others do what I like too? — jastopher
but free-range etc. could produce more pleasure than suffering, and hence eating meat is not absolutely wrong. — jastopher
If the first thing that comes to mind when someone intends to hurt you is the morality of their behaviour, I would say that there is something very wrong with you. — Michael
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.