I hate hackers

Wayfarer

I am working on a contract in IT Security and Compliance, which is generally pretty boring. (Eh, it pays the bills.) But coincidentally, this week on Australia's Four Corners news documentary site there was a feature about hacking, cyber-threats and computer security. It featured some big trade event in Los Vegas where all these uber-geeks come together and try and hack into systems.

Anyway, this has lead to the realisation that I really hate this whole computer security business. This documentation I'm working on is being driven by a 460 page compliance report, which goes into the whole business of security, anti-virus, best practice, and so on - and I can't help but think what a massive waste of resources and time it all is. And it's because there are a lot of people out there who for some reason think that hacking into computer systems is 'clever' or 'cool' or something. Why don't they do something useful? And then there's the f****ing CCP who have a huge state-sponsored hacking department, the existence of which they routinely deny.

What a crock and total waste of human productivity this whole thing is. You have entire companies, like Symantec, who have thousands of executives on big salaries, who are just basically parasitic on all this nefarious and totally useless activity.

M'eh. If I didn't have bills to pay I would simply walk away from this although fortunately for me it's a short-term contract and it will be finished fairly soon. But it's all a load of complete bollocks as far as I am concerned.

andrewk

I don't like hackers either but I'm sure we can find a bright side. All those people employed by IT security companies have jobs, earn wealth and pay tax that enables us to maintain our marvellous welfare state (no sarcasm intended, just in case it's not obvious) and look after the poor and vulnerable. Even better, they are doing it in an industry that creates very little waste of physical resources or greenhouse impact, because there is almost no physical production or transportation involved. AND, many of the people involved enjoy their job, whereas otherwise they might get depressed and/or develop criminal tendencies.

Who knows, maybe the Y2K fear partly drove the economic boom of the nineties. Maybe all that work was necessary, maybe it wasn't, but it generated lots of low-physical-waste activity and kept people happy and engaged.

In his essay 'In Praise of Idleness' from around 1915, Bertrand Russell proposed that we should benefit from our increased productivity by sharing the work and wealth around, so that everybody worked only about sixteen hours a week. There seems to be too much greed around for that to happen so the next best thing may be relatively harmless make-work activities, to stop all the wealth from ending up in the hands of the running-dog capitalist pigs that own the means of production.

Wayfarer

↪andrewk

Hey, they're good points, I hadn't thought of it like that. Beats painting rocks. But still, considering the amount of expertise and knowledge that goes into all that - for what? I just hate the mentality that regards cracking security as a worthwhile activity. It's a total waste of everyone's time.

Metaphysician Undercover

Who knows, maybe the Y2K fear partly drove the economic boom of the nineties. — andrewk

Oh that's for sure - but there was a big crash afterwards. The bubble effect.

Moliere

I feel like most work is a waste of time, were it not for the social caveat that this is how I get a roof over my head and food on the table.

OglopTo

It's a total waste of everyone's time. — Wayfarer

Not if you can earn/lose huge sums of money. #FollowTheMoneyTrail

unenlightened

I just hate the mentality that regards cracking security as a worthwhile activity. It's a total waste of everyone's time. — Wayfarer

One only needs security if it is worth cracking. You seem to think that what you are doing is something different from what hackers do, but bankers and bank robbers have the exact same interest - money.

Thorongil

↪Wayfarer

If you think about it, most human activity outside of eating, drinking, sleeping, defecating, and friendship is a gigantic and unnecessary waste of time.

ArguingWAristotleTiff

Oh that's for sure - but there was a big crash afterwards. The bubble effect. — Metaphysician Undercover

If Y2K had a bubble burst, then the inevitable loss of trust and integrity, of monetary transactions on the internet, will be akin to a 1000 year flood.

We are going to need a bigger boat.

Baden

If you think about it, most human activity outside of eating, drinking, sleeping, defecating, and friendship is a gigantic and unnecessary waste of time. — Thorongil

You forgot sex. Other than that, a moment of rare agreement.

Thorongil

↪Baden

I deliberately excluded that category. Sex isn't necessary in the slightest.

Baden

↪Thorongil

I know you did, and I disagree, but I'm not going to argue the toss here.

BC

↪Baden I deliberately excluded that category. Sex isn't necessary in the slightest. — Thorongil

The hell it's not!

Thorongil

Well gentlemen.

Shawn

Move to Linux.

Problem mostly solved (depending on what programs you use).

Then there's always VM-ware.

Wayfarer

Going through this report I'm working off, the phrase that strikes me again and again is 'vulnerable to attack'. The whole thing is informed by 'vulnerabilities that can be exploited by an attacker'. And this is become normalised, like this global cat and mouse game between those trying to conduct business via computer, and those whose mission is to steal, destroy, undermine and trash. And it's become normalised, we've lost sight of the fact that theft and destruction of property are actually unethical behaviours. Really I hate the whole thing, the sooner I can be out of this contract, the better.

andrewk

Really I hate the whole thing, the sooner I can be out of this contract, the better. — Wayfarer

It sounds like you work in something related to IT. I'm interested in what sort of work you find the most rewarding in your chosen field. I expect it varies greatly between individuals but I'd like to hear what works best for you.

Wayfarer

I'm a tech writer. So basically I write instructions and system documentation of all kinds - end-user guides, implementation guides, policy and procedure documents - that kind of thing. It's rarely that interesting, but some assignments are less boring than others, and security compliance is very dry indeed. But doing this job has also made me realise the extent of criminal activity on the Internet and the consequence that there are very large companies whose only raison d'etre is because of these activities. It's an 'industry' nowadays, but the only reason it exists is because of mischief and malfeasance.

My first ever tech-writing job, which was in 2004, I wrote a kind of mini-history of the Internet, starting from DARPA in the 1970's. At the time, I was amazed by how clever the basic design of TCP/IP is - Vincent Cerf and the others who devised it, were incredibly clever. But had they known what was coming (and who could?) then there would have been a lot more thought put into security and authentication from the beginning. But it was designed by scientists for defense communications, not for a interconnected worldwide commerce network, so the chance got missed.

I've been in the internet industry since the beginning - very much a bit player throughout - and it really is a two-edged sword. It has brought incredible benefits by way of communication and knowledge sharing, but it has a shadow side, and sometimes I wonder if the shadow is going to overwhelm the light.

jkop

There is a sense of 'hacking' which refers to the activity of accessing relevant mechanisms and source code in technical devices so that the user can fully control them or improve them even instead of having the devices control the user by being defect by design or sabotaging fair use.

OglopTo

And it's become normalised, we've lost sight of the fact that theft and destruction of property are actually unethical behaviours. — Wayfarer

Interesting. Now that you mention it, maybe human behavior in the internet can provide a good working model on how social norms in a new community develop.

It can go something like, at first, everyone is shy but eventually starts exploring the limits of what one can do. It develops into a free-for-all game, but then it gets out of hand and rules are gradually established to determine which set of behaviors are acceptable. However, the lack of monopoly of control/violence in the internet makes it especially difficult for one party to dictate the behavior of the rest of the community. Or something like that.

It could also give us an idea on the inner workings of humanity in its rawest and unhindered forms.

Wayfarer

↪OglopTo

maybe human behavior in the internet can provide a good working model on how social norms in a new community develop.

That is unfortunate but also true. The internet normalises a lot of activities and behaviours which the wise would do well to avoid.

hunterkf5732

↪jkop

I'm pretty sure this sense in which the word ''hacking'' could be used is not the sense in which the OP poster uses it, since clearly,hacking in this sense is not something anyone would have any reason to oppose.

jkop

↪hunterkf5732

The lack of good reasons won't stop some people and corporations from opposing fair use. Some lawyers specialize in protecting old monopolies by suing kids for sharing records or films with eachother, and there is illegitimate monitoring of use and sabotage of user's equipment such as in the Sony-scandal. Opposition to fair use is also present in the legally binding agreements that one is typically required to accept in order to be able to use software, online services etc.. These typically prohibit "unauthorized use", and their source code is typically closed, which makes it impossible to legitimately change, repair, or improve their functionality. Granted that there exists non-constructive or destructive forms of hacking, and businesses which thrive on the threat, but all hacking is not destructive.

Hoo

↪Wayfarer

And it's become normalised, we've lost sight of the fact that theft and destruction of property are actually unethical behaviours. — Wayfarer

I wouldn't go that far. It's just that criminality is always with us as a species, so we take it seriously and minimize our risk. It does suck that we have to build so many fences and walls, literally and metaphorically, but "so it goes."

Wayfarer

↪Hoo

Perhaps - but what I was referring to is the kind of routine accommodation of the fact that, no matter how secure you make your system, you have to assume that someone with malicious intent is going to want to attack it. It is a fact of life, but also a commentary on the state of the world.

I was reading an article on a journalist who covers IT, whose Apple ID, and then all of his online files associated with it, were wiped out by a hacker - just because they could be. He never knew who did it, or why it was done. And that kind of thing is happening every day. (I know it's totally useless my kvetching about it, I just wanted to vent.)

OglopTo

Might be relevant (on hacking on a much larger scale):

The real story of Stuxnet
http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/security/the-real-story-of-stuxnet

Inside the Cunning, Unprecedented Hack of Ukraine’s Power Grid
https://www.wired.com/2016/03/inside-cunning-unprecedented-hack-ukraines-power-grid/

NATO Recognizes Cyberspace as New Frontier in Defense
http://www.wsj.com/articles/nato-to-recognize-cyberspace-as-new-frontier-in-defense-1465908566

Wayfarer

Thanks OT they're all very good stories.

We had a cyberlocker attack today. Some lady in a branch office lost a lot of correspondence and other files. Of course had the procedures been better they would have been backed up. But it means someone has s lot of work to do, explanations to give, ground to make up. For nothing, basically.

I hate hackers

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