What about this. Until 60 years ago, borders were not patrolled and there was no such thing as an illegal immigrant. The problem is the idea of national borders in the first place. — Benkei

No dear friend. Not in a post 9.11 world.

Exactly how many "extra" is a "few"?

Are you willing to condemn Trump's use of language or not? Because if you're not, you're not worth a millisecond more of my time.

Donald Trump announced that he intends to end family separation with an executive order, by allowing entire families to be held in the same ICE detention centers. Now at the start of the thread you made a big deal about not housing the families together, so how do you now reconcile your views, with what appears at the moment to be a change in Trump's position? Also given that now Trump believes he can end this with his pen alone, something many of us said he could do, how do you reconcile that with the notion his hands were tied by existing laws? — Jeremiah

Dude, the problem with housing children in an adult detention center is that there are laws against it. When American citizen Sally is arrested for a crime, while she is being held, she does not have her children with her in jail.

Tell me why American citizen Sally cannot keep her child with her in jail?

Are you willing to condemn Trump's use of language or not? Because if you're not, you're not worth a millisecond more of my time. — Baden

Trump's use of language is not something I agree with. No one should be referred to that way.

@Baden
Now Sir, with all due respect please answer my question.

What happens when the lawsuits are filed against the executive order because children are being held in detention centers over 21 days?

If it remains that way we are back to catch and release, with more than 90% never returning for their court date.

No conceivable amount of immigrants that are likely to cross your border illegally is worth losing your self-respect and dignity as a country over. Which is what has been happening.

But whatever. Send them back. Just don't treat them like they're subhuman.

But whatever. Send them back. Just don't treat them like they're subhuman. — Baden

Send them back where?
Why not suggesting that we help them through to Canada?

But whatever. — Baden

This is a disappointing response to a very specific question about your words.

Exactly how many extra are a few?

Can you or can you not answer both of my questions?

Can you or can you not answer both of my questions? — Jeremiah

I did. The law states we cannot keep children in detention centers over 20 days.

Now, why can't American citizen Sally keep her baby with her in jail?

I answered your question and your response didn't make any sense. As far as I'm concerned I'm arguing about treating people with basic human dignity. The details and exact numbers and methods need to be worked out within that parameter. Obviously, my position is that you're better off sacrificing some tax dollars than your standing as a modern humane democracy. If you're now going to ask many how many dollars exactly, you're missing the point entirely. You are morally obligated to uphold basic human rights. It's up to you to figure out a way to do that. It's your responsibility as a country.

I am asking you how many extra illegal immigrants do you think we are dealing with?

You are morally obligated to uphold basic human rights. It's up to you to figure out a way to do that. It's your responsibility as a country. — Baden

Gotcha. Armchair advisor from another country to damn the inhumane ways of the USA but offering no solution to the illegal immigration problem we face.
Fair amount of time given to entertain your suggestions of possible solutions. :sad:

You are about as honest as Trump.

Did you read anything I wrote today? The solution, as even Trump has managed to work out, is to stop separating families at the border. Your overall level of immigration from Mexico is a separate issue, and is roughly net neutral anyway and therfore not a problem that I think needs a solution.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/14/martin-omalley/martin-omalley-net-migration-mexico-was-0-2014/

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

Did you read anything I wrote today? The solution, as even Trump has managed to work out, is to stop separating families at the border. Your levels of immigration are roughly net neutral and are not a problem that I think needs a solution. — Baden

Yes Baden I have read what you have written today. We are not at a net neutral, we are operating with a net negative and it will be showing soon in the prices of lettuce that comes from Yuma, AZ a border town.

My struggle is not with legal immigrants, it is with the illegal immigrants. The reason we are at a net negative is not just because of the chaos at.the border but Mexico's overall economy is doing better.

We are obligated by law to educate illegal immigrants to the age of 18 without proof of citizenship and that puts a strain on the legal citizens tax dollar.

Do you think that charging illegal immigrants in state College tuition is fair, when every other American citizen that does not live in AZ pays out of state tuition, which is significantly higher?

These are just a few examples of the ripples of costs goes so far beyond the images at the border.

I answered your question and your response didn't make any sense. As far as I'm concerned I'm arguing about treating people with basic human dignity. — Baden

I don't want to be a nuisance, stepping into a very serious thread with an overly academic remark, but have you read Anscombe's "Modern Moral Philosophy"? The famous remark I have in mind:

But if someone really thinks, in advance, that it is open to question whether such an action as procuring the judicial execution of the innocent should be quite excluded from consideration — I do not want to argue with him; he shows a corrupt mind.” — G.E.M. Anscombe

That's my unshakable feeling about arguing with anyone pro-child concentration camp. There's no meaningful moral conversation to be had; the conversation itself is a form of corruption.

I'm on the record as saying you have a right to let in or keep out whoever you want. It's your country. And I presume you were historically soft on immigration because it benefited you economically for businesses to be able to pay low wages for unattractive jobs. It's a mess of your own making. You chose it as a country and it's your problem. But you need to find a way to solve it humanely. That's an issue of international concern. And Trump's dogwhistling to fascists isn't helping.

It's a fair point.

Trump signed an EO ending child separation at the border. He created this situation, then walked around blaming the Dems all the while claiming his hands were tied and he could not do anything unless the Dems did something, even though the Republicans control EVERYTHING. Then only after over 2300 children have been taken form their parents and put in cages does he do something, and with a simple signing of his name, ends it.

Trump is not fit to run this country, anyone of intelligence knew that before he was even elected. However, all his little Trump followers trip over themselves trying to keep up with supporting his shifting chaos. Trump has got to be the dumbest US president of modern history and maybe even all of US history. We are living in the era of stupid here in the USA.

Trump signed an EO ending child separation at the border. — Jeremiah

Why was no one complaining when Obama separated children at the border?

http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/19/photos-obama-immigration-detention-facilities

Why was no one complaining when Obama separated children at the border? — tom

Perhaps because the kids weren't held in the U.S. for up to 2 month after their parents were deported?

How many other brilliant questions like that can Trumpers conjure up?

He didn't. Those facilities were for unaccompanied minors, i.e. children who crossed the border unauthorized without parents. The article you provided even states, "personal accounts from immigration lawyers tell a tale of Obama being equally concerned about unaccompanied minors traveling to the border and wanting to create a deterrent."

And there absolutely were complaints about them.

Case in point.

You just don't understand Trump's Zero Tolerance policy at all, do you?