Lincoln was being pursuaded to pass the 13th Amendment to avoid war. — Hanover
If I've got something wrong, educate me and offer me a cite. — Hanover
The experienced Republicans around Lincoln asked him to give a speech advocating an amendment that would permanently protect slavery in the south. — frank
You're ignorant of large swaths of it. — frank
In regard to Jim Crow, I'm realizing something. Every time the issue of white supremacy comes up, I think of how they violently took over the south in the 1890s. You're a Republican, but you dont know about that. So when a Democrat expresses concern about American nazis, you think they're just being ridiculous. — frank
Jim Crow was a result of an event that started in the 1890s. How do you live in Atlanta and you don't know what happened? You're oblivious to the history of your own home. — frank
And this: since his campaign, a lot of Trump's themes have been almost identical to the messages of white supremacists in the 1890s: the concentration on bringing back greatness, and the preoccupation with crimes committed by latinos. Did you know that? — frank
The Klan was founded in 1866 and was controlling legislatures by 1870. https://www.history.com/topics/ku-klux-klan . Your account seems to be that the South fully embraced Reconstruction until a few rabble rousers disrupted it. — Hanover
The Klan was not active in the 1890s when white supremacists violently took over the Southeast. Black votership in the south was 40-70% prior and 3% post. It became illegal for blacks and whites to eat at the same restaurants or work side by side (which they had been doing previously).
Blacks were making progress in establishing businesses, accumulating wealth, discovering some degree of influence through politics, etc. All that came to an end in the 1890s. — frank
Yes. The events you're talking about inspired northern Republicans to come down and secure the rights guaranteed by the 14th Amendment. They were successful enough that, as I said, black votership became high, blacks were starting businesses and accumulating wealth. Blacks and whites did associate in and out of the workplace. — frank
That all changed in the 1890s. I wish I could give you the title of a good history, but the course I took on it mostly involved primary sources. If you look, you will find, though. — frank
In 1875, the last Union forces left Mississippi, Reconstruction ended, and state Democrats began an ongoing campaign to restore and maintain white supremacist rule. Black Mississippians, whose citizenship and voting rights had been established by the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments, were now without proximate federal protection and wholly vulnerable to discrimination. When Mississippi convened delegates to create a new state constitution in 1890, disenfranchising the black electorate was a primary goal.
Elected delegates were the only Mississippians authorized to attend and participate in the constitutional convention that would create the state’s new governing document. During the summer of 1890, F.M.B. “Marsh” Cook, a white Republican and former candidate for Congress, campaigned for a delegate position out of Jasper County. An advocate of civil rights for the country’s new black citizens, Cook vowed that he would use his position as delegate to oppose all attempts to create a state constitution that limited black voting rights. Cook also encouraged the local black community to organize against the creation of discriminatory constitutional provisions.
Cook’s political views were not popular among some whites in the community and he received threats. On the afternoon of July 25, 1890, one day after giving a speech regarding the upcoming convention, Cook was found dead near Mount Zion Baptist Church. He had been dead for several hours, fatally struck by fifteen rounds of buckshot. No one was arrested or tried for the killing, and after Cook’s death, local Democrats alleged he was a dangerous man who had been inciting local blacks against whites. The 1890 Mississippi constitutional convention moved forward, and resulted in a state constitution that established literacy tests and poll taxes that effectively disenfranchised nearly all of the state’s black electorate. — History of Racial Injustice
Your cautionary tale of "you better be careful with Trump or else we might one day have another uprising like we did in the 1890s" simply does not logically follow. — Hanover
Is it really that important which year? It seems to me there was good progress prior to 1890 possibly 1870 and that got overturned either starting in 1870 and/or culminating in 1890. — Benkei
Very nice point re Archie and David Duke! I've highlighted 'white culture" out of a vague hope you can add some clarity as to just what that is, because beyond certain obvious attitudes (roughly: we are the best, thereby the entitled, with variations) I do not know what white culture is. (Being white, I can affirm my ignorance with some authority!)white culture — frank
It wasn't until the 1890s that they finally had widespread success in taking over state governments in the south. — frank
This particular formulation begs the question of meaning. The question could be, does the ordinary belief of many folks then, that white people were in some way superior to Africans, have anything to do with modern white supremacism.the white supremacy behavior — Hanover
Yes. I guess I downplayed white supremacy between 1865 and 1890 because I was focusing more on the dramatic change in black votership and the violent enforcement of segregation laws that started then. I think what most people are talking about when they mention Jim Crow is actually stuff that started in the 1890s. — frank
And this would be relevant if the purpose of this conversation was one upsmanship.You, on the other hand, haven't admitted any of the multitude of errors you've made since we started this conversation. :meh: — frank
I'm guessing that as a result of overuse by liberals of the term "Nazi" to refer to Republicans, you have a cognitive filter on the word. So as I try to explain to you that some of what Trump is doing is reminiscent of Nazi tactics and echoes white supremacist voices in American history, I get filtered out. True? — frank
3. Your prior comment made no sense, which is that Lincoln was being pursuaded to pass the 13th Amendment to avoid war. He came into office after the South seceded, meaning an Amendment would have had no effect on the South. His desire for the Amendment came much later, well after he changed the basis of the war to be to end slavery. — Hanover
Trump, like many Americans, is a product of a socio-cultural environment that has been steeped in 400 years of vitriolic racism — Maw
I disagree. We simply wouldn't be where, what, and who we are now if racism was as deeply ingrained in us as you and Hanover argue. — frank
But what is this based on? How do you know what we (speculatively) would be otherwise? This history of racism in America is well established by scholars, from the 17th century to the modern age. — Maw
Hanover has argued that the white supremacist take-over of the 1890s was nothing more than a re-emergence of native racism. It was more than that. The south had been economically and psychically ailing prior to this event in much the same way Germany was ailing after its WW1 defeat. — frank
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