So do you take all communications of reactions which can be seen as negative or unfavourable by the other party as threats? — Agustino
Without negotiating them, we won't be able to live together. — Agustino
Why not? Maybe the person taking them wants you to keep growing them. If he knew this, he would modify his behaviour and would not take all of them anymore, only some. It does count as violence since it is opposed to the desire of the other, and you're forcing him not to find anymore tomatoes there.No, of course not. If all my tomatoes get stolen or vandalised, I won't grow any next year. I'm not threatening anyone. — unenlightened
So then how would society be possible?We can't live together. — unenlightened
Agreed. But do you agree with the need for this kind of communication in order for society to be at all possible?But if your communication of consequences are "If you take my ball, I'm going to punch you" then that is a threat, and said threat is violent. — Moliere
Agreed. But do you agree with the need for this kind of communication in order for society to be at all possible? — Agustino
Weapons are the tools of violence;
all decent men detest them.
Weapons are the tools of fear;
a decent man will avoid them
except in the direst necessity
and, if compelled, will use them
only with the utmost restraint.
Peace is his highest value.
If the peace has been shattered,
how can he be content?
His enemies are not demons,
but human beings like himself.
He doesn't wish them personal harm.
Nor does he rejoice in victory.
How could he rejoice in victory
and delight in the slaughter of men?
He enters a battle gravely,
with sorrow and with great compassion,
as if he were attending a funeral.
Forget the state. Without the kind of violence that they are talking about you cannot even have this forum.No violence, no state. But no state, more violence. Lamentable. If we all just stayed online insulting each other rather than fucking about in the real world, we might be able to solve this. — Baden
Okay, how do we live in peace if I want X, and you also want X, and we both can't have it? Must there not be some means or manner for the two of us to negotiate, or at least for the two of us to determine who gets X and who doesn't? If there is such a means, then that means itself is violent, under the definition we are using.I think it is possible for us to live in peace. — Moliere
That's not true. Violence does not always produce resentment. I gave you the above scenario, when a main contractor pays the subcontractor less than agreed price due to delays. That is a violent act. But it does not beget resentment, so long as the other party understands it as reasonable.Violence begets violence. We live in a cycle of violence. — Moliere
What makes you believe this? — Moliere
And on the far right of the graph showing almost no visible marking in the graph for violent deaths in 20th century USA and 2005 (world population)? — 0 thru 9
But if I had to be born over? Either way would be fine, might even lean towards going back in time for the heck of it. — 0 thru 9
This is a very arbitrary way of thinking about the phenomenon, which actually obscures any understanding of the existence of man. First, people are taught everything in childhood - even NOT internalizing a dictatorial figure. That is also, indeed, something they - internalize.Tyranny doesn't always come from without. In some cultures people are taught in childhood to internalize a dictatorial figure. People of that kind won't need much of a threat from an external force to enjoy peace. — frank
Have you ever watched children play? — csalisbury
I have an alternative. Violence in-itself is not a problem. Whether it's good or bad depends on the context. You just have an unnatural aversion to violence, such that you don't see that it's ever good.Anyway, it's the other chap that's the problem, and my violence is down to him. That's where we are, isn't it? — unenlightened
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