I don't believe I am hungry. I am just hungry. — Banno
In the sandwich example above, it's not the hunger that is believed, it's the solution - John believes that eating the sandwich will fix his hunger. — Banno
Your approach here leaves me little reason to continue with you Sap. — creativesoul
Sapientia is evidently hung up on the idea that he can think about his own thought, belief, and 'feelings' when no one else is around, and dubiously concludes that others aren't required for introspection.
What he doesn't seem to understand is that the only reason that he can do that is because he already speaks language. That is... because of others. — creativesoul
I don't believe I am hungry. I am just hungry. — Banno
That's a contradiction right there. When you say "I'm hungry" with sincerity, belief is implied. — Sapientia
Yes, but being hungry and saying you are hungry are not the same. — Janus
And even when you say you are hungry, the introduction of the notion of belief is a redundant elaboration. It's similar to the kind of unnecessary elaboration involved in the difference between saying 'It's raining" and "I believe it's raining". The same thing happens with the notion of truth; 'it's raining' and 'it's true that it's raining'. Belief and truth in these kinds of elaboration, can get reified as substantive states. — Janus
Well, yes, obviously. Why are you saying that? Did you think I thought otherwise? — Sapientia
The only bit you've lost me on is that last sentence. I'm not entirely sure what you mean that, but whatever. — Sapientia
Because Banno spoke about the difference between being hungry and believing you are hungry, and you responded by stating that saying you are hungry implies believing you are hungry; and that was obviously irrelevant to what he had said, and which made it look like you had thought he was talking about saying he was hungry. — Janus
...you're just not being clear enough in expressing yourself and I've misunderstood. — Sapientia
But a logical consequences of that would be that if everyone else were to suddenly cease to exist, then I wouldn't be able to introspect from that point onwards.
Existential dependence means that the existence of X depends on the existence of Y, and from that it obviously follows that if Y ceased to exist, then X would also cease to exist. — Sapientia
o come back to the now canonical example, searching the kitchen for my keys only makes sense if I both want to find them and think they might be there. — Srap Tasmaner
Aren't you shifting the focus from what counts as belief to what counts as acting rationally? — creativesoul
According to your notion, I am not existentially dependent upon my mother, even though my life is impossible without her. — creativesoul
I'm insisting on another aspect of the connection between beliefs and actions. Banno has talked about our use of "belief" in giving post facto explanations of our behavior.
I'm just pointing out that we also say, if you want to find your keys and you think they're in the kitchen, you should want to look for your keys in the kitchen, and anyone who didn't must either have some good reason not to or they just don't think the way we do.
I don't see anything on offer that can take up the role of belief (or expectation, or something else in this neighborhood) in such judgments. — Srap Tasmaner
If my mother had not given birth to me, I would not be here right now, in this moment. This conversation could not be happening if my mother had never given birth to me.
If that doesn't stop you in your tracks Sapientia, then nothing else I can think of will. — creativesoul
Why would that stop me in my tracks? It's something that I have never denied, and it's irrelevant to what I've said... — Sapientia
It's not at all irrelevant, my friend. Oblige me...
So...
This conversation could not be happening if my mother had not given birth to me. You agree with that much.
Do you disagree that this conversation is existentially dependent upon my mother? — creativesoul
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