Since lying is deliberately misrepresenting one's own thought and belief, and it is always done in situations when the speaker believes that they ought not allow others to know what they think and believe, it seems to me that one cannot lie to oneself
— creativesoul
What if we are of two thoughts?
I believe something good about myself. I know that it is false. These are in conflict with one another. — Moliere
If we are of one mind then I don't think we could lie to ourselves. I agree with that -- that's why I thought unenlightened made a good point in saying we'd have to have a divided mind in order for us to lie successfully, and not just be delusional or some such. — Moliere
...when one holds that lies are always false.
— creativesoul
At least in a general sense I'd say that's what lying is -- to tell someone a falsehood while knowing it is true in order to deceive them. So I'd say that in the case of telling someone about my own thoughts then I'd be lying if I told them something I do not really think -- that this is a particular case of lying, but that lying doesn't have to be about my own thoughts. It could also be about whether I have the money for the bill. — Moliere
Lying, as simple as it seems and as young as we learn how to do it, is actually a really complicated behavior. — Moliere
What must be the case in order to successfully lie to yourself? — Moliere
What must be the case in order to successfully lie to yourself?
— Moliere
I think most people's favorite method is convincing themselves, persuading themselves that they know something which they do not. (Second place is probably convincing themselves that they do not know something which they damn well do.) I'd count that as lying. — Srap Tasmaner
Sometimes you cherry-pick the evidence, and you know you're cherry-picking, and you know you shouldn't, but you do it anyway... — Srap Tasmaner
They deliberately trick themselves into thinking it's ok? — creativesoul
What counts as a lie? What is the criterion which, when met, counts as being a lie? — creativesoul
Since lying is deliberately misrepresenting one's own thought and belief, and it is always done in situations when the speaker believes that they ought not allow others to know what they think and believe, it seems to me that one cannot lie to oneself. — creativesoul
Hmm, but there is evidence that affirmations can help produce a better self-image, and greater self-confidence, so long as they end up replacing negative thought patterns, as opposed to merely supervening on top of them. — Agustino
But to have an image that acts is to have a divided mind; it is to be running a simulation of oneself and letting that run one's life. One performs one's identity. — unenlightened
Bearing in mind that you're asking me, unenlightened (surely a foolish move?), I think it is a matter of identification. — unenlightened
So, for example, there are facts about where I was born and what kind of passport I have, and then there is the identity of 'Englishman'. Or there are facts about what I have read and studied and thought over, and then there is the identity of 'philosopher'.
Identity is somehow more than the facts; it is a commitment to the facts; an investment in the significance of the facts. And this creates a separation, of a central self in the mind - I am an English philosopher. Something to protect against, well everything, including whatever else might be the facts of what I am. — unenlightened
Deliberately misrepresenting is not forgetting... — creativesoul
But confabulation is a little of each.
You know how it's impossible to walk any great distance if your stride with one leg differs slightly from your stride with the other? Now tell yourself at each step that it's only a little different, and that can't make much difference. It's like that: you relax your cognitive standard just a bit, and indeed it does not make the inferential step you're taking invalid, but if you keep compounding this little compromise you end up in the wrong place. I'd call this a kind of lying to yourself and it's incredibly pervasive. — Srap Tasmaner
Yes, I understand that as far as you're concerned the phrase "lying to yourself" is just a contradiction. But it's a phrase we all use, so what are the options?
It's just an idiom and the word "lying" is not meant literally.
People do literally deceive themselves, even though you, and maybe none of us, don't quite understand how that's possible.
Your criterion for lying is too narrow and leaves out this case and perhaps others, like "lying by omission". — Srap Tasmaner
...it's a phrase we all use, so what are the options?
How does one stop acting from the image? — Evil
Stage magic and storytelling both include techniques that rely on our capacity for self-deception. Sometimes the magician, instead of trying to hide how a trick is done, can get the audience members themselves to dismiss the solution, and this is much more effective. A movie can present a character that's a little "off" but not make a big deal about it, and the viewers will mostly decide not to worry about him, until the third reel when it turns out he's the killer.
You could say these are cases of deception, but really it's just giving us the opportunity to deceive ourselves and most of us are generally quite prepared to do so. — Srap Tasmaner
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