If so, that would make even his anecdotal sample size zero and his 'argument' exactly the type of baseless hot air we've come to expect from Trump supporters. They believe because they want to believe. Reality is irrelevant.

I've never set foot in America either, but it sets foot on me quite a lot, and I feel entitled to fulminate.

Not only fulminate. You can draw any conclusion you want as long as you look at something. So, for example, if you want to find out crime rates in Sydney Australia, you don't need no stats, you just use your eyes to look at a city anywhere and that will tell you the answer. #noneedstats #doeasyway #MakeScienceGreatAgain!

Do you have something against "alternative facts"?

To my knowledge, Agustino has never stepped foot in America, and yet he thinks it's a bacchanalian cesspool of sex and left-wing demagoguery. — Maw

A (supposedly) Frenchman bitching that America is (allegedly) getting more than him?

:smirk:

He's Eastern European, not French. Not sure which country precisely.

I still want to know if @Agustino was being sarcastic or not.

evil and funny, I love it :cool:

Trump Finally Admits His Campaign Colluded With Russia At Trump Tower Meeting

So first it's "no collusion" and then it's "yes collusion, but collusion isn't a crime". What's next? "Collusion is a crime but it was necessary to MAGA"?

He didn't admit collusion. He admitted to now knowing about the existence of a meeting between his son and Russians about dirt on Clinton but that he wasn't aware at the time.

He admitted to now knowing about the existence of a meeting between his son and Russians about dirt on Clinton — Benkei

So he admitted that his campaign were colluding with the Russians.

That particular Russian was hired by Fusion GPS. She met with Fusion before the meeting and immediately after.

What this means is the meeting itself was orchestrated by the DNC operatives who hired Fusion GPS who in turn hired the Russian.

That adds up to the DNC colluding with Russians.

That particular Russian was hired by Fusion GPS. She met with Fusion before the meeting and immediately after.

What this means is the meeting itself was orchestrated by the DNC operatives who hired Fusion GPS who in turn hired the Russian.

That adds up to the DNC colluding with Russians. — raza

If that were true it doesn't mean that Trump's campaign didn't collude with Russia. It just means that the DNC also did.

That particular Russian was hired by Fusion GPS. She met with Fusion before the meeting and immediately after.

What this means is the meeting itself was orchestrated by the DNC operatives who hired Fusion GPS who in turn hired the Russian.

That adds up to the DNC colluding with Russians. — raza

Regarding this, the best I can find is here:

Mr. Simpson was in court with Ms. Veselnitskaya hours before the Trump Tower meeting and saw her again shortly after it, his lawyer, Joshua A. Levy, confirmed. But these contacts were related to Mr. Simpson’s work on the case for BakerHostetler (my note: this started in 2014), Mr. Levy said, and Fusion only learned about the Trump Tower meeting in news reports last year.

Is this what you're referring to? If so, how do you get from that to saying that Veselnitskaya was hired by Fusion GPS and that the Trump Tower meeting was orchestrated by the DNC? That's quite the leap.

As you have introduced above, Veselnitskaya was connecting with Fusion in meetings immediately before Trump tower meeting and immediately after.

Clinton Campaign and Democratic Party Helped Pay for Russia Dossier
By KENNETH P. VOGELOCT. 24, 2017

WASHINGTON — The presidential campaign of Hillary Clinton and the Democratic National Committee paid for research that was included in a dossier made public in January that contained salacious claims about connections between Donald J. Trump, his associates and Russia.
A spokesperson for a law firm said on Tuesday that it had hired Washington-based researchers last year to gather damaging information about Mr. Trump on numerous subjects — including possible ties to Russia — on behalf of the Clinton campaign and the D.N.C.
The revelation, which emerged from a letter filed in court on Tuesday, is likely to fuel new partisan attacks over federal and congressional investigations into Russia’s attempts to disrupt last year’s election and whether any of Mr. Trump’s associates assisted in the effort.

The letter that was filed in court said that Fusion GPS began working for the law firm, Perkins Coie, in April 2016. Written by the firm’s managing partner Matthew J. Gehringer, the letter said that Fusion GPS had already been conducting the research “for one or more other clients during the Republican primary contest.”

Law firm, Perkins Coie, was paid $12.4 million to represent the Clinton campaign and the D.N.C. during the 2016 campaign, accoring to filings. The role of the Clinton campaign and the national party in funding the research for the dossier was first reported on Tuesday by The Washington Post.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4116755-PerkinsCoie-Fusion-PrivelegeLetter-102417.html

Although it was the other way around, according to Bill Browder, with regard to who hired who:

“ Veselnitskaya, through Baker Hostetler, hired Glenn Simpson of the firm Fusion GPS to conduct a smear campaign against me and Sergei Magnitsky in advance of congressional hearings on the Global Magnitsky Act. -Bill Browder, Testimony to Senate Judiciary Committee, 7/26/17.”

Law firm Baker Hostelter paid Fusion $523,651 between March and October 2016 on behalf of a company owned by Russian businessman and money launderer Denis Katsyv to research Bill Browder, a London banker who helped push through the Magnitsky Act - named after deceased Russian lawyer Sergei Magnitsky, who Browder hired to investigate Russian corruption.

What's strange is that Katsyv's attorney, Natalia Veselnitskaya - a John McCain fan who hates Trump and uses Democrat lobbyists, was initially denied entry into the United States, only to be allowed in under "extraordinary circumstances" by Obama's Homeland Security Department and approved by former AG Loretta Lynch so she could represent Fusion GPS client Denis Katsyv's company, Prevezon Holdings - and attend the meeting at Trump Tower with Donald Trump Jr. - arranged by Fusion GPS associate Rob Goldstone.

So as you can see, Obama’s AG, Loretta Lynch, approved entrance into the US under “extraordinary circumstances” for Veselnitskaya, who was initially denied entry.

This “extraordinary” approval by the Obama administration ALLOWED for Veselnitskaya to engage in all the meetings outlined in the above posts.

So it is all “quite a leap”, you say?

What's strange is that Katsyv's attorney, Natalia Veselnitskaya - a John McCain fan who hates Trump and uses Democrat lobbyists, was initially denied entry into the United States, only to be allowed in under "extraordinary circumstances" by Obama's Homeland Security Department and approved by former AG Loretta Lynch so she could represent Fusion GPS client Denis Katsyv's company, Prevezon Holdings - and attend the meeting at Trump Tower with Donald Trump Jr. - arranged by Fusion GPS associate Rob Goldstone. — raza

She was granted entry to represent her client. There's nothing to suggest that she was granted entry so that she could entrap members of Trump's campaign at the request of the DNC.

So it is all “quite a leap”, you say? — raza

Yes.

Yes, a leap. You're passing along the distortion of events invented by Trump.
See this.

As you have introduced above, Veselnitskaya was connecting with Fusion in meetings immediately before Trump tower meeting and immediately after. — raza

That was regarding the case they were both involved in, with that first "meeting" in a Manhattan federal courtroom. And it's far more believable that the second meeting was also regarding that legal case, and not down to some conspiracy against Trump. You're making it up.

For someone who so often proclaims to not believe anything unless he's seen the evidence himself, you're sure willing to buy into any crap that you can use to defend Trump.

She was granted entry to represent her client. There's nothing to suggest that she was granted entry so that she could entrap members of Trump's campaign at the request of the DNC — Michael

I think there is plenty of suggestion otherwise.

I think that it is quite suggestive, for instance, that the Obama administration (AG Lynch) colluded with the Clinton campaign given that Clinton would be the Democrat’s choice over that of Trump.

Everything neatly, not at a leap, follows from that, with regard to her meetings.

It is a leap to not see connections.

That was regarding the case they were both involved in, with that first "meeting" in a Manhattan federal courtroom. — Michael

In a timeframe within which the Trump Tower meeting was held.

How convenient.

The Russian lawyer (NV, will do) had those connections. That isn’t disputable. She connected in her business with Fusion GPS, the dossier providers (if not constructors), and she met Trump Jr and co.

No “leap” there. Quite the intimate opposite.

So you're saying that Trump's collusion with Russia is actually one big trap that was set by Obama and Hillary in order to try and get him impeached once he won the election?

The Trump/Russia collusion conspiracy theory isn’t anything other than a theory.

Rosenstien has addressed that there is no conclusion regarding the accusation.

So you're saying that Trump's collusion with Russia is actually one big trap that was set by Obama and Hillary in order to try and get him impeached once he won the election? — VagabondSpectre

Stzrok: “insurance policy”.

How is it that a Donald Trump post is the most commented on in a philosophy forum? That's disheartening.

How is it that a Donald Trump post is the most commented on in a philosophy forum? That's disheartening. — Marchesk

Most discussions focus on just one problem. Trump creates a new problem every week.

It seems much more plausible and likely that the Trump campaign just colluded of its own accord. Proposing that it's actually a Dem conspiracy sounds crazier than anything the Dems say about Trump. Nobody will believe it...

In a timeframe within which the Trump Tower meeting was held.

How convenient. — raza

In the literal sense, yes. The lawyer arrived in the city on the 9th to attend court, and so arranged to meet Trump's campaign that day.

There's no conspiracy there.