OK, I'm ready. Now where's the joke? The anticipation's killing me. — Metaphysician Undercover
“Since Libet’s finding started to filter out,
there were speculations about our free will.
What, my free will is useless – I’ll give it up!
take it my friend and tell me what to do.
Now, how could I – give up something I did/do not have.” — Damir Ibrisimovic
Hope that your anticipation is now elevated...
Enjoy the day, — Damir Ibrisimovic
I guess that the existence of our free will is now accepted. — Damir Ibrisimovic
And people like Libet, aren't they just trying to understand free will rather than to prove that there is no such thing? — Metaphysician Undercover
Unfortunately, Dr Benjamin Libet believed that we only have free will in cancelling our urges. He was also unsure about "mysterious what" triggers Readiness Potential. — Damir Ibrisimovic
The "I" that's choosing is the entire rational animal — gurugeorge
... it takes Buddhists, for example, several years of serious meditation :) — gurugeorge
Aren't these the two essential aspects of free will... — Metaphysician Undercover
That's will power. — Metaphysician Undercover
I do not know in detail about Buddhists' meditation but it fits nicely with the fourth scenario of learning new thoughts, feelings and actions... — Damir Ibrisimovic
In all 4 scenarios, the boundary of the "I" is the total physical animal; its own awareness of itself, its internal modeling of itself, is secondary, and it doesn't matter if that happens some time after the brain machinery has worked to produce whatever action it produces. — gurugeorge
The Libet experiments only pose a problem if you believe that the "I" is something like this "soul," this "ghost in the machine" — gurugeorge
The Libet experiments only pose a problem if you believe that the "I" is something like this "soul," this "ghost in the machine... " — gurugeorge
We can also assume that "I" is hidden within every unicellular organism. Social like behaviour, for example, was exhibited by yeast cells. When there is not enough food - cells start to die to provide themselves as food-packets for the rest of the colony. An "altruism" at the cellular level... — Damir Ibrisimovic
You are assuming something like Descartes' dualism... — Damir Ibrisimovic
I dunno, I think the "I" is more of a complex thing than you can get at that level ... — gurugeorge
From the angle of "determinism," it's quite unproblematic to conceive of a deterministic robot having free will in a deterministic universe. — gurugeorge
I guess that we will difficult path to an agreement here. — Damir Ibrisimovic
... an internal modeling capacity, which requires a level of computing sophistication simple organisms just don't have. — gurugeorge
The description can be rudimentary. Please note that even smallest unicellular organisms have a very complex genome... — Damir Ibrisimovic
But the point I was making was that you don't get identity in the sense we're talking about, — gurugeorge
The only thing we need now - is to weed out deterministic terminology. There are no cause and effect driven robots and computations. — Damir Ibrisimovic
I don't see how you can get away from talk about cause/effect and determinism, especially if agency talk can be broken down into deterministic talk. — gurugeorge
Talking in terms of giving away free will is talking about the idea or the belief in free will. — creativesoul
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