Emotions are how we value things

TranscendedRealms

Let's pretend that you had the thought in your mind that nature is beautiful. That thought would be information going on in your brain. Once that thought makes you feel a positive emotion from nature, also pay attention to that emotion. You should come to realize that this emotional state isn't just an emotion. It, too, is information/a message going on in your brain that nature is beautiful.

This clearly shows that thought information gets transferred over to the emotional areas of our brains and takes on an emotional form. But, like I said before, the emotions are the real perception/experience of beauty or horror and not the thoughts. In other words, emotions are how we truly value things in life and not our thoughts or beliefs. As you can see here, this is why I describe positive emotions as being divine states or divine energy/information.

I will say another thing here as a reminder. The thought or belief of hunger, thirst, or physical pain isn't the same thing as experiencing actual hunger, thirst, or physical pain. The same rule applies to valuing things in our lives. The only way we can experience a mental state where we value things would be through our emotions and not our thoughts. Thoughts aren't the real things and are just ideas of said things. That's why thoughts aren't real value judgments and it can only be our emotions which are the real value judgments.

unenlightened

Yup.

Hume is particularly concerned with analyzing our practical reasoning, our reasoning about how to act. Passions are the engine for all our deeds: without passions we would lack all motivation, all impulse or drive to act, or even to reason (practically or theoretically). This gives at least one sense in which “reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions” (T II.3.3 415). Hume also holds that the passions are not themselves directly subject to rational evaluation. In fact, it seems something of a category mistake to think that they could be either rational or irrational. Passions are impressions – strong and lively perceptions with a certain “feel” and a direction, or impulse. Reasoning, however, is a matter of connecting various ideas in order to come to a belief; it may apply to, or even form, the circumstances under which passions arise. But reason can generate no impulse by itself.

SEP

Andrew4Handel

↪TranscendedRealms

I think it is possible to have values not based on emotion.

Especially valuing equality.

For example say there are 9 apples and three people and one person gets seven whilst the other two people get one each mathematically and logically we can see that is an unfair distribution.

I think there are non emotional assessments you can make like this.

It is not clear whether emotion or judgement comes first. Are you unhappy because you judged that distribution was unfair or did the emotion make you believe the transaction was unfair?

However I do feel that emotions might be the only way of enforcing values because people seem more susceptible to this than reason.

I don't think you can improve peoples welfare solely based on emotion.

Number2018

↪TranscendedRealms

The thought or belief of hunger, thirst, or physical pain isn't the same thing as experiencing actual hunger, thirst, or physical pain — TranscendedRealms

Is that possible for a conscious individual to experience actual hunger, thirst, or physical pain without thinking about them?

Lif3r

↪Andrew4Handel

I feel like generally our emotions are triggered as a response to a scenario.

For example:
Your child is avoiding sleep by thinking of reasons to leave their bed. You would like to sleep. After many rounds of this ongoing situation, your emotional response could be frustration. In frustration one could consider the value of the scenario negative or annoying - or ascribe the value as "bad", but upon further investigation we can conclude that the scenario *does* retain value. I believe value does not stop at emotion, but that emotion plays a factor in our ability to assess a situation to deduce it's value.

Baden

Your child is avoiding sleep by thinking of reasons to leave their bed. You would like to sleep. After many rounds of this ongoing situation, your emotional response could be frustration. In frustration one could consider the value of the scenario negative or annoying - or ascribe the value as "bad", but upon further investigation we can conclude that the scenario *does* retain value. I believe value does not stop at emotion, but that emotion plays a factor in our ability to assess a situation to deduce it's value. — Lif3r

Good point. :up:

TranscendedRealms

I don't recall a single given moment in my life where thoughts and beliefs allowed me to value things. My positive emotions have always been the only way I could value things in my life as beautiful, amazing, good, or magnificent. My negative emotions have always been the only way I could value things as horrible, bad, disgusting, or tragic. This has been my own personal experience. Sadly, positive emotions are very fleeting things which means the beauty in my life is something fleeting.

My view might be very limiting and reductionist, but I think it's delusional for people to be convinced of this idea that there's more value to life than emotions. When it comes to value, people are too focused on their intellect and character rather than the real truth. All I'm asking is that people pay very close attention to their emotions and discover the truth for themselves. I found the truth within myself and can only hope that other people find it, too.

Lif3r

↪TranscendedRealms

You burn your hand on the stove. Yes the feeling is unpleasant, you may curse it in emotion, and you may initially find no value in the experience, but the lesson you learn is valuable. Don't touch the stove.

You have an affair and cheat on your spouse. During the act you may find beautiful and pleasant emotional value. After evaluation you may learn that it's value is less than equivalent to it's destructive potential.

Those are examples of times when thoughts essentially "over ride" the initial emotional value that one might place on a given circumstance.

Andrew4Handel

I don't recall a single given moment in my life where thoughts and beliefs allowed me to value things. My positive emotions have always been the only way I could value things in my life as beautiful, amazing, good, or magnificent. My negative emotions have always been the only way I could value things as horrible, bad, disgusting, or tragic. — TranscendedRealms

I don't see how you validate your values in this scenario.

It seems to be saying that if someone feels pleasure abusing people then that is the right thing to do because if someone enjoys doing things like abuse, exploitation and cruelty, then how can they judge them to be bad.

I think it is possible to judge things as bad that we enjoy doing or desire.

Are you saying emotions are the only valid way to the truth of values?

Like most people I have conflicting confused emotions so I couldn't rely on them very well. But I do think emotion is a big source of motivation and decision making from what I have heard studies claim that damage to certain areas of the brain associated with emotions undermine decision making and motivation.

Overall however after having to read a long book on emotions I became completely uncertain about what an emotion is. I need to reread it.

TranscendedRealms

↪Andrew4Handel

All I can say here is that I would need a new personal experience to convince me that I can value things in my life through my intellect. So far, I haven't had such an experience. Also, the truth can often times be cruel and immoral. So, just because my values would say it's a beautiful or good thing for a psychopath to harm someone if he felt happy about that doesn't make my values false. Plenty of absurd things that sound cruel and immoral are true things. I think people are in denial of such truths because they don't want them to be true.

Andrew4Handel

↪TranscendedRealms

What do you think emotions are?

I am a value nihilist I think it is hard to validate values.

TranscendedRealms

↪Andrew4Handel

Emotions would be things such as feeling panic from being in a dangerous situation, a feeling of excitement from going to the carnival, a feeling of rage, or a feeling of sexual arousal.

Andrew4Handel

↪TranscendedRealms

Are you saying emotions and values are identical because to me they seem to be quite different things?

If I eat food that I don't like I recognise that as a personal preference. If I don't enjoy lamb I don't judge it to be a bad thing so I can separate between personal preferences and moral values.

TranscendedRealms

↪Andrew4Handel

I am saying they are the same things. Reread my opening post which explains why. My OP also says to pay very close attention to your emotions and you should come to realize they are value judgments.

JohnHermes

Thought and emotions are the 2 sides of the same coin. When one is to the extreme, it may seem like it's only emotion by itself. For example. Something might get you so emotional that it eclipses the thought subconsciously. Or you can have a very neutral type of thought but there is always a subtleness of emotion. Like making an observation and stating a fact about someone with seemingly "0" emotional attention to that person. A person making about a comment about another person on a train. Even though the person comment may seem neutral, it isn't. That person had the emotion curiosity. Each major emotion has variations and mixtures between them. Just like the shades of the color scheme.

Andrew4Handel

↪TranscendedRealms

Well I don't think you have proven your point. What value is behind conflicted emotions?

Like I pointed out we can reject our own values even if we have a strong emotional attachment to them, through reason.

TranscendedRealms

↪Andrew4Handel

We can still make choices in life regardless of our emotional state. Even though intellect is no real source of value, I can, for example, still choose to save my life or the life of someone else even if I didn't feel up to it. But the very fact I would make such a choice does not presuppose that my intellectual decision was a real source of value in my life.

For example, a person can still choose to eat or drink something even if he's not hungry or thirsty and a person can still choose to smile even though he's not happy. Likewise, people can still do things in life even though they have no value to them.

Lastly, I asked you to do a little exercise and that would be paying close attention to your emotions as well as your intellect. Have you come to realize that your emotions are the real value judgments and that your thoughts aren't? The truth, in this case, is discovered from looking within. So, it was never about arguing about it like you and others are doing.

Lif3r

My emotional response was to be intrigued, but my intellect has found no value in the discussion.

:joke:

Andrew4Handel

Have you come to realize that your emotions are the real value judgments and that your thoughts aren't? The truth, in this case, is discovered from looking within. So, it was never about arguing about it like you and others are doing. — TranscendedRealms

I am a nihilist so I find it hard to see value in anything unfortunately. I am also a depressive so that can flatten the emotions.

I think if anything has value it is hard to discover that value. I just live in hope that life won't turn out to have been futile.

I don't see how you can really go from an emotion to a coherent value. To solve problems you need to use your intellect.

Andrew4Handel

It seems to me that that values can last for a long time and emotions can be temporary so that a value outlives an emotion making them come a part from one another.

You can be angry to see someone hitting a child and think it is wrong but can still feel it is wrong after the initial strong anger subsides.

bloodninja

↪TranscendedRealms

I think you need to make some distinctions. Values are not the same as emotions, values underlie emotions, and thoughts. For example, I can only be frustrated at you not getting my point if I value truth. Emotions don't "allow you to value things"; on the contrary, values allow you to have emotions about things.

creativesoul

Nope.

Meaningful attribution is how we value things...

creativesoul

Some emotion is prior to valuing things. Some is after. Some is a result of valuing things. Some is not. I do not think that there is a direct simple connection between value and emotion.

bloodninja

Emotion has nothing to do with valuing anything

bloodninja

I take that back

Emotions are how we value things

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