Not to barge in, but Tiff doesn't feel insecure, Praxis. She feels hurt that someone she cared about branded her as a racist.

You should not be, particularly on a philosophy forum where the pursuit of truth is paramount. — praxis

W
T
F are you talking about? Attempting to grasp the concept of truth is philosophical. Pursuit of truth is paramount in a court of law. Were you expecting to try somebody or did you want to understand somebody else's point of view?

If it was the latter, try coming across a little less like a jackass.

Tiff doesn't feel insecure — frank

It's creepy to talk about someone who doesn't speak up for themselves, but since you bring it up, she wrote, "I am not sure what I feel comfortable in talking about here", and this expresses a degree of insecurity surrounding her beliefs about the Lier-in-Chief.

Attempting to grasp the concept of truth is philosophical. — frank

People philosophize in order to merely be philosophical?

Pursuit of truth is paramount in a court of law. — frank

Law is the pursuit of order and justice or the enforcement of social norms, I would say. Like politics and religion, this often has little to do with truth.

Were you expecting to try somebody or did you want to understand somebody else's point of view?

If it was the latter, try coming across a little less like a jackass. — frank

I suppose this means you don't care to understand my point of view. :sad:

I think she was right to steer clear of you.

Seems like a good place to examine our beliefs to me. The only thing that could be injured is ego.

From beyond the grave: John McCain Sounds the Alarm on Trump and Russia in New Documentary ‘Active Measures’

if it doesn’t scare the bejesus out of you it ought to. Notice that Trump continually repeats the mantra ‘no collusion’ when he’s been witnessed at least twice, live on internationally televised broadcasts actively colluding with Putin [i.e. the infamous ‘Russia if you’re listening’ and the Putin summit press conference.]

Not to barge in, but Tiff doesn't feel insecure, Praxis. She feels hurt that someone she cared about branded her as a racist. — frank

Simply, Thank you. :broken:

Well, to be fair, it is an intimidating challenge to defend the belief that Trump is good for our country or democracy in general. Not for the faint of heart.

Well, to be fair, it is an intimidating challenge to defend the belief that Trump is good for our country or democracy in general. Not for the faint of heart. — praxis

I'm not faint. Dow Jones loves him. QED.

Prove that he's bad for our country or democracy if your heart can handle the challenge.

I voted for Clinton so don't get yourself overly excited.

Prove that he's bad for our country or democracy if your heart can handle the challenge. — frank

I guess preaching to the choir takes heart, but of a different sort. The only hard part is deciding where to start.

I know, last nights rally in Indiana. Talking about the Justice Department and FBI, Trump said "I wanted to stay out. But at some point, if it doesn't straighten out properly -- I want them to do their job -- I will get involved, and I'll get in there, if I have to." Also, in regard to the 'fake news' (news that is unfavorable to him) he said "These are just dishonest, terrible people. I'm telling you that. Terrible people." This on the same day that a man was charged with making violent threats to Boston Globe employees, calling the newspaper the "enemy of the people."

It's not good for democracy to erode the independence of law enforcement and the judiciary, and it's not good for democracy to deliberately undermine the free press.

The environment
Here's a list of the environmental regulatory rollbacks of the Trump Administration:
http://environment.law.harvard.edu/POLICY-INITIATIVE/REGULATORY-ROLLBACK-TRACKER/

A new report concludes that one effect of these rollbacks and changes to regulatory agencies is 80,000 deaths each year.

Healthcare
3.2 million fewer Americans have healthcare since Trump took office. With the new tax bill that number is expected to increase by 13 million in ten years.

Employment and the economy
Really good. Sustainable??

I'm not faint. Dow Jones loves him. QED. — frank

Sounds pretty faint to me.

It's not good for democracy to erode the independence of law enforcement and the judiciary, and it's not good for democracy to deliberately undermine the free press. — praxis

Lincoln suspended the right to writ of habeas corpus. Democracy got along just fine. I think you'd probably agree the present situation is fairly tame in comparison, yet you declare the sky is falling. Why is that?

A new report concludes that one effect of these rollbacks and changes to regulatory agencies is 80,000 deaths each year. — praxis

That's a worrying speculation. May we have some proof that 80,000 people died because of those regulatory changes?

3.2 million fewer Americans have healthcare since Trump took office. — praxis

There was a big wildfire too.

With the new tax bill that number is expected to increase by 13 million in ten years. — praxis

Do I need to explain the difference between a stray expectation and proof?

Dow Jones loves him. QED — frank

Sounds pretty faint to me. — praxis

That tends to confirm my suspicion that you're wealthy enough not to really care that the economy is booming. You don't really care about the well-being of all the people who are presently able to feed their families because of that prosperity.

What you do care about is the fact that Life did not deliver a perfect world to you wrapped up in a giant golden bow. Every generation of Americans has had to grow a spine and stand up for what they believe in. Praxis, it's your turn. Stop whining about it and do it. Open your eyes and see that the present situation is not the fault of one man and attacking your fellow Americans is not going to accomplish anything.

Turn your attention to what the problem really is, think about how you can fulfill your obligation to your society, and for Christ's sake, have a little faith in your people and yourself.

Forgive me, Frank, if I ignor the personal nonsense and only address some of your points.

It's not good for democracy to erode the independence of law enforcement and the judiciary, and it's not good for democracy to deliberately undermine the free press.
— praxis

Lincoln suspended the right to writ of habeas corpus. Democracy got along just fine. I think you'd probably agree the present situation is fairly tame in comparison, yet you declare the sky is falling. Why is that? — frank

The question is if the kind of actions that I’ve pointed out are good for democracy. Many believe that a free press and an independent judiciary and law enforcement support a healthy democracy. If that’s true then any effort to undermine these institutions is, well, not good, right?

A new report concludes that one effect of these rollbacks and changes to regulatory agencies is 80,000 deaths each year.
— praxis

That's a worrying speculation. May we have some proof that 80,000 people died because of those regulatory changes? — frank

I can look up a link to the report if you like. I gave a link to the list of deregulations, which is quite extensive.

With the new tax bill that number is expected to increase by 13 million in ten years.
— praxis

Do I need to explain the difference between a stray expectation and proof? — frank

Do you actually believe these reports are wild speculation? There are already 3.2 million fewer Americans with healthcare, as I pointed out.

Many believe that a free press and an independent judiciary and law enforcement support a healthy democracy. If that’s true then any effort to undermine these institutions is, well, not good, right? — praxis

Your goal was to show that Trump has been bad for democracy or the American society. If he has actually undermined either, please demonstrate that.

I can look up a link to the report if you like. I gave a link to the list of deregulations, which is quite extensive. — praxis

I don't need the report. I need proof that 80,000 people have died directly as a result of Trump's actions. Otherwise, you have nothing but a speculation.

Do you actually believe these reports are wild speculation? There are already 3.2 million fewer Americans with healthcare, as I pointed out. — praxis

I think you mean they lack health insurance. They will receive free healthcare at their local emergency department which is not allowed to turn them away. This has been going on in every American community for decades.

You haven't proven your point. Sorry.

You haven't proven your point. Sorry. — frank

And you made yours with “Dow Jones loves him”?

Faint, my friend, so very faint.

And you made yours with “Dow Jones loves him”? — praxis

That is correct. Me:1. You:0

We’re not playing the same game. Going back to the beginning, the challenge was to defend the belief that Trump is good for the country and democracy, not to prove it.

The refuge of a poor loser is to move the goalpost. :razz:

I didn't see that you moved any goal posts. How do you even move a goal post? Aren't they cemented into the ground? :victory:

Don’t feign ignorance, Frank, it’s unbecoming of @ArguingWAristotleTiff’s champion. Not to mention the other shameless fallacies, including that pathetic excuse of an ad hom, and it was three paragraphs long. I can practically see Tiff cringing.

I went with what I had. I didn't want to make fun of your baldness.

Anyway, the kind of analysis you asked for is the task of historians, some of whom may have been born today. We can't place it in a historic context. We don't know what happens in the next chapter.

Elizabeth Warren may likely run for president in 2020. The Boston Globe just published this exceptionally excellent report on how little, if any, effect, her native American ancestry claims had on her professional career. In fact, she never made any such claim until after he professional career was established.

Forgive me, Frank, if I ignore the personal nonsense and only address some of your points. — praxis

:clap:

Bob Woodward's book on Trump: The most explosive quotes :gasp:

TRUMP IS NOT A CONSERVATIVE.

None of what he says, is, or does, is in the least compatible with conservatism as such. The fact that the co-called ‘Conservative party’ fell to his chicanery without even a fight, only serves to illustrate the intellectual bankruptcy of conservative politics in America. It has nothing to do with conservatism as a political or intellectual movement. It’s only about debasement.

//ps// another bombshell. You have to wonder how many more it's going to take.

Bob Woodward's book on Trump: The most explosive quotes :gasp: — S

I see you and raise with I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration.

A soft coup? As much as I disagree with Trump, the idea of staffers taking covert unilateral decisions is not good. If things are as bad as this official is saying it is then they should resign and put a face to their words. Push for impeachment, or even the 25th Amendment as the author said has already been considered. Don't take it upon yourself to be a shadow government.

(I've been intentionally avoiding politics for the past week or so, but this seems a pretty big deal)

The op-ed was awful for multiple reasons. Should never have been published

As much as I disagree with Trump, the idea of staffers taking covert unilateral decisions is not good. If things are as bad as this official is saying it is then they should resign and put a face to their words — Michael

I had the same thought - but they might say that if all the sane members of the Administration were to do that, then the fox would be well and truly left in charge of the hen-house. Desperate times call for desperate remedies.

(Imagine being in staff meetings with Trump today..... :worry: )

and...Elizabeth Warren calls for 25th Amendment to be invoked for Trump.

plus ....Rick Wilson calls on informant to go public

Seems to me the current bull market is due to factors that have been in put in place since the recovery from the GFC. It takes several years for policies and fiscal settings to filter through to the economy. So what Trump is taking credit for (and he will always take the credit for anything positive with no responsibility for anything else) was put in place by his predecessors. So when he brags about how much he's done in the last two years, it's not much of anything other than rolling back regulations and cutting taxes (with a lot of other stuff caught up in political deadlock.)

What's bothersome about Trump is that he really does display gross incompetence, negligence and untruthfulness on a daily basis. Yet he's convinced himself and his supporters that he is the only person telling the truth, and all of the reporting about his incompetence and possible corruption is a media fabrication. This is so far from the truth - but still nothing changes. Every time you think it must be the final straw, that something will really change this time - it just keeps rolling along. Michael Moore said today we better get used to the idea that Trump will be re-elected, unless the Dems pick someone with star power, like Oprah Winfrey or Michelle Obama (which won't happen). And I have a dread feeling he's right; the situation really is terribly broken.

Trump is having a pretty rough couple of weeks, even by his standard.

I still think he will be impeached, or more likely resign in lieu of impeachment. If the republicans lose the House in the midterms then it seems all but assured.

Big day for NY politics tomorrow

Impeachment requires 67 senators to convict which isn’t going to happen.

Is that too big a swing for the fall?

I would guess that every single democratic seat would be down for impeachment, and surely a few republican senators would as well.

Counting only currently held democratic seats, we're 20 votes short.

Could the number of republican senators plausibly willing to impeach plus the number of additional senate seats gained by the dems in the fall be greater than 20?