I'm curious, if the Cyrenaics thought that the only thing we know of are our pathe, how did they come to know of this general metaphysical principle? — darthbarracuda
If the whole of knowledge is self-knowledge, what about their philosophy? — Mongrel
Additionally, if all we can know are our own pathe, how can we know what others pathe are like in principle, i.e. pleasurable, painful, neutral? — darthbarracuda
How does the Cyrenaic epistemology avoid solipsism, and why does it posit the existence of an external world (one that cannot be arrived at by pathe alone) instead of adopting idealism a la Berkeley? — darthbarracuda
Maybe the only thing we can know for certain (pace Descartes) are our immediate experiences (I am experiencing a salty taste, I am experiencing heat, I am experiencing the color red, etc), but it would seem to be the case (unless we are idealists) that any epistemology that limits itself to these incorrigible experiences and yet postulates the existence of a structure to the world outside of our experiences is contradictory, or at least an unacceptable speculation. — darthbarracuda
The simple answer is, you can't. But I don't think there needs to be any common ground of faculties in order for there to be communication, and the sort of pluralism and skepticism we end up with is one with positive ethical content and not a disappointment that we need to try to circumvent. — The Great Whatever
There may be a kind of epistemological solipsism to it, but this is not the kind of solipsism that people generally worry about. — The Great Whatever
It's also worth noting that in general Hellenistic ethics was not as concerned with societal behavior as modern ethics. It taught about the good life of the individual, and thought about society only in relation to this. — The Great Whatever
Cyrenaic epistemology seems not to countenance any existential statements or denial of them at all. — The Great Whatever
Quite clearly, in order to be consistent, they would have to devote no time, rather than a fuzzily defined less time. — csalisbury
have you ever heard an addict philosophize/justify himself while high on his drug of choice? He may hit up Dionysus tommorow, in the sober light of day, but thats beside the point, which is right now, which is *this* — csalisbury
& finally I think it would be easy to show that being a Cyrenaic is practically equivalent to not being a Cyrenaic — csalisbury
I guess I'm still a bit confused as to how the doctrine of unknowability escapes itself. We could call philosophy (or any inquiry for that matter) a game based on baseless assumptions, but this itself is a philosophical claim based on baseless assumptions. — darthbarracuda
That's what I personally see metaphysics as: an attempt (not a discipline per se) to make sense of thing in the most general sense of the term. — darthbarracuda
Ethics is fundamentally concerned with what choices we should make — darthbarracuda
and this depends on others around us (what Cabrera calls the FEA - the non-manipulation and non-trangression of other people's interests). — darthbarracuda
But this epistemological solipsism is not pathe-based, or is it? The description of our epistemological and existential condition is necessarily outside of our immediate perceptions. — darthbarracuda
It what way does Cyrenaism transform how one acts? And the only action mentioned thus far is playing the courtier for money. And courtiers knew how to be ironic and trip up other courtiers long before philosophy appeared on the scene. — csalisbury
(Which, incidentally, is why I think Barthelme, Proust, Beckett etc. are far greater than any philosopher, besides maybe Socrates.) — csalisbury
Judging from your depiction of them, the Cyreniacs only allow for immediate pleasure as the good. But that begs the question as to what is immediate in this context? How long does, or can, immediacy last? — John
is that the Cyreniacs don't allow for any persistence of identity across time at all — John
in principle, why the time frame could not be extended indefinitely allowing us to, more prudently, seek eudamonia across an entire lifetime — John
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