Social construction is about the informational constraints that shape the individual psychology. So it is not about society making you decide anything, it is about society being the meaningful framework within which any personal autonomy is exercised. — apokrisis
A larger purpose in life is the social purposes to be found all around us. Society is the organismic level of organisation here. It is the locus of the kind of meanings that are necessary to social creatures living a social lifestyle. — apokrisis
But as a departure point for moral philosophy, that is the reality from which to start a discussion. It is not unnatural to be behaving like socially constrained creatures if it is social constraint that is constructing us as the particular creatures we are in the first place. — apokrisis
But again, WHO is making the choices within that social setting. You keep moving the goal post from who makes the decision, to what the decisions are about. — schopenhauer1
You miss my point. Chimps and dolphins are social creatures too. — schopenhauer1
However, they don't necessarily have to purposely set goals for themselves. — schopenhauer1
But it is the RESPONSIBILITY of the individual to make decisions, to choose, to conjure goals to pursue. It is not given that what choice has to be made. — schopenhauer1
Unfortunately, you discount the choice nature of individual humans within their social structure- even the choice to want to do nothing in particular. — schopenhauer1
Sometimes I wonder why talking past each other is an acceptable method of argumentation to some people.adding more needs alongside food and water does not make those needs meaningful. The commenter is saying that we deceive ourselves when it comes to believing that there is a reason to follow our instincts of survival. Adding more instincts does not invalidate his claim — khaled
Dolphins beach themselves. What to make of this?But look at what we can do. We can even have ideations of suicide. — schopenhauer1
It's called satisfying an instinct. People naturally move towards a source of food, like the refrigerator.What motivates us to do anything in the first place? Well, we usually have to have, at the last, a short-term/temporary goal in mind, and move towards that. — schopenhauer1
Biological needs.Where does this goal originate? — schopenhauer1
Nah. It takes very little to do what we do most of the time. We move towards the door when we hear knocking without thinking of meaning or value.Well, that is where we put our fiat-value on something, to make us feel the impulse to move towards it. — schopenhauer1
No. Loud sound, strange sound, or banging will make us move towards it. We didn't prefer it or prepare for it at the dawn of civilization.Further, this derives from preferences that we have cultivated over time. — schopenhauer1
So, you are willing to allow that hope is evolutionary, but in the same breath brush off our coping mechanism as something we invented? Honestly, Schop. Why do you do this? I know you from before. Early onset of imbecility is not part of your condition.Hope is in the equation, perhaps for evolutionary reasons. It could just be a coping mechanism we happened to have developed in order to keep the goal-factory moving along. — schopenhauer1
do you think our need to be busy everyday can be blamed on evolution? — Caldwell
The human is one that must self-deceive at all moments that there is something to do, somewhere to go, and something to be. — schopenhauer1
To say that is the RESPONSIBILITY, all shouty like, is already to take a very historically conditioned view of the human story. Check out your cultural anthropology and you will find that traditional tribal cultures don't tend to think they have some responsibility to make a personal choice about the life goals they will pursue. — apokrisis
It's called satisfying an instinct. People naturally move towards a source of food, like the refrigerator. — Caldwell
Nah. It takes very little to do what we do most of the time. We move towards the door when we hear knocking without thinking of meaning or value. — Caldwell
So, you are willing to allow that hope is evolutionary, but in the same breath brush off our coping mechanism as something we invented? Honestly, Schop. Why do you do this? I know you from before. Early onset of imbecility is not part of your condition. — Caldwell
The Schopenhauer religion is just another story being used to push away the scary void. Perhaps this story could be useful if it encourages us to turn and face the void, which would of course include saying goodbye to the Schopenhauer religion. — Jake
So, meaninglessness is good, ethically speaking. It liberates us from being mere tools in a grand scheme devised by God or something else. We're free to choose our destinies and that is, for me, better than having something like a divine purpose.
It's not self-deception. It's wisdom. — TheMadFool
But what are your assumptions here about facing the void and the like? — schopenhauer1
If we are to truly look at what we are doing, we are constantly thinking of ways to make sure we have something to work towards. — schopenhauer1
However, with any prolonged reflection, these goals are just placeholders for a void. — schopenhauer1
Other animals, let's say a bird, has no need for self-deception. It doesn't fill voids of meaning. It eats its seeds, it makes its nest, it chirps in the morning, it finds mates, and repeats. The human is one that must self-deceive at all moments that there is something to do, somewhere to go, and something to be. — schopenhauer1
The human is one that must self-deceive at all moments
We aren't actually required to fill all moments with the search for becoming story meanings. No law of nature prevents us from taking a break from the becoming story meaning, turning to face the void, and then exploring that realm. — Jake
So apparently you agree that this inflated notion of having to make fiat-like goals to rule your own life is merely a modern socially constructed “freedom”. Great. It wasn’t a straw man then, was it? — apokrisis
We though, we have destinies to fulfill. — All sight
No, the straw man was saying that the tribe automatically is some collective hive-mind or some such. — schopenhauer1
Rather, I proposed alternative reasons for a more group-like mentality including social conditioning which has tried to tamp down individualistic tendencies or perhaps that they have not "discovered" the extent of individual freedoms of choice, the way some societies didn't "discover" the applications of science to technology. — schopenhauer1
It is a little mind game where we make goals, and believe we should be following those goals. — schopenhauer1
So what does exploring that realm mean? — schopenhauer1
You're right. I think we should be in the know about all forms of deception, especially self-deception as it's harder to realize and avoid.
But...
After we come to realize that we're fooling ourselves what are we to do?
Imagine x realizes life is an illusion. That's a good thing to know. However, x is alive and must still live his life. His realization doesn't suddenly transport him into a different world.
After realizing a game is corrupted why can't I continue playing it? — TheMadFool
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