• BrianW
    999
    To overcome our addiction of anthropomorphism may be the first step to understanding the mechanics of existence. We get caught up in concepts like mind, consciousness, soul, etc., because they create a paradox where we fail to see the unity and harmony in all of life's processes. We won't accept a purely physical explanation because there are abstract (non-physical) relationships, and we won't accept the metaphysical because all proof we have is based on physical interactions.

    However, suppose we eliminated the 'human form' from our considerations: what would consciousness, mind, soul, etc., be? For example, what do we mean by consciousness? Perhaps, awareness, responsiveness, experiencing, etc, etc. Can such aspects be observed outside the human condition? My answer is yes. Not only that, I would posit that, in every degree of existence, there is an activity or aspect which is analogous to what we refer as consciousness. In animals and plants, it is rather obvious, but it also exists in non-biological configurations. It is present in metals and plastics, and even in less complex configurations like molecules, atoms, etc., primarily as responsiveness. Some would object to such as being mechanical and inherently structural but, is there any existence which lacks structure or, to make reference to humans, character? Everything has a structure or form; everything has character or manner; everything has a way of being. Existence is an identity, an influence and an activity simultaneously.

    And where humans speak of an innermost essence, a soul or ego, atoms have a nucleus. This is not pseudo-science, every configuration of existence must have its 'core' of representative significant utility. That is, every configuration of existence has a part, a character/manner, which exemplifies its significance in the utility it provides in whatever circumstance or conditions it is in. This 'core' manifests as both subjective (particular) and objective (in relation to others). In humans, it is the intelligence of our interaction whether attributed to soul, consciousness, mind etc; in animals and plants, to us, it is in provision of service, nutrition, company, etc; in non-biological configurations, it is in how much usefulness we can extract from them to enhance our circumstances, ...and so on.

    I'm not preaching economics or some philosophy based on utility but, take a moment and think about what we know of life so far. What use are humans spending eternity in heavens and hells, stuck in those conditions of perpetual slavery to an unyielding stagnation? What would be the point of evolution? What would be the point of learning? How can the same intelligence which governs the evolution of a universe (and everything in it) lead to such an uncharacteristic and ignoble end?

    There has been a great deal of existence before us (humans) and every probability points to a great deal more beyond us. So why should we get stuck anywhere? Our perspective seems to expand like a sphere, the more we know about our present, the better we realise our past and conceive of the future. So, perhaps we need to focus less on how unique we think we are and pay more attention to how we are a part of an unfolding panorama of existence. It seems the more practical approach.
  • Anthony
    197
    To overcome our addiction of anthropomorphism may be the first step to understanding the mechanics of existenceBrianW

    Agreed. However, maybe the real topic is human exceptionalism. It's very common to find a person who is concerned about anthropomorphic projection and at the same time displays all the trappings of someone who is a human exceptionalist. If you've not noticed...humans have a way of placing their technology at the center of all types of relations. And, because of this, they wind up anthropomorphizing heavily into technology. The same person may tell you not to anthropomorphize your pet and then they turn around and treat their computer like a human being and say it has memory, etc. It makes more sense to anthropomorphize something living than it does anything nonliving. Humans describe their computers quite poetically (metaphorically), so you can see it's actually about human exclusivity rather than anthropomorphism.

    Undoubtedly we could better understand existence if we could get over ourselves. It's clear, however, this has yet to happen.
  • Nils Loc
    1.4k
    Given that folks here would aspire to scientific modes of querying reality, that the value of rational thinking is assumed out of the gate, isn't the default tendency of the modern age to overcome anthropomorphism, or at least be able to recognize its (ir)relevance to whatever is at issue?

    I sense some strange irony in the OP, as if instead of overcoming anthropomorphism you're secretly desiring to argue the opposite. Is the topic geared toward theists?

    Edit: Maybe anthropocentrism (human exclusivity) is a better term for your purposes.
  • BrianW
    999


    I think human exceptionalism would be a better term and I'm arguing against its prominence. The main idea is not to exclude exceptionalism or anthropo-morphism/centrism but to dilute it in plain unembellished perspective. Something close to a domain of 'practical sense', perhaps devoid of distasteful romanticism, un/super-natural metaphysics, unnecessary symbolism and overly emphasized materialism. We should put an end to the conflict in our perspectives between the abstract and material paradigms. Our intelligence uses both of them logically by expressing each to its own particular ends. The distinction between the different aspects of existence should be restricted to a relativity which does not succumb to prejudice in perspective. The more we dissolve into the 'whole' or the more every relative aspect is recognised to contain a similar 'genetic' foundation borrowed from an ultimate origin or association, the sooner and further we're likely to unfold knowledge of reality. This is because the same intelligence or mechanism which began our universe also created our cosmic environment and is just as responsible for our planet and everything in it including us humans. This same intelligence governed the formation of biological and non-biological entities. It evolved plants, animals, humans, and we rationally expect it to continue beyond that. Currently, the theories which are making the most advancement towards unfolding our knowledge of reality, are based on common features supposedly evident in all of reality, for example general relativity and quantum field theory.

    It seems, this discussion may also be against -isms. I'm against any field of knowledge which does not recognise its relativity and, consequently, its deficiency and refuses to adapt or change itself in accordance with the necessity of evolution. Deists, theists, atheists and materialists quickly come to mind because most who profess to be such, are notoriously brazen about their small-mindedness. How can we forget that philosophy has been popular and relevant both when it advanced predominantly through the abstract and the practical, as in metaphysics and science respectively. Logic is not confined to the human mind; it is addressed in every event manifest in reality, whether abstract or concrete, mental or physical. We seem to succumb to an addiction of progressively creating more limitations to our already limited perspectives. The way I see it is, disregard of the more comprehensive reality which we are a part of should be seen as a symptom of ignorance and, no matter the school of thought or domain of knowledge, experience and belief, if it denounces any other without proper care to understand and delineate it, necessarily, it must reveal its own deficiency because, how can such inadequacy determine the bar of rationality?
  • prothero
    429
    Part of the problem is that human language is inherently anthropomorphic and anthropocentric. Common theological language is often even more problematic. God as Father is inherently anthropomorphic not to mention patriarchal and anti femimist. God as King is inherently authoritative, dictatorial and coercive, etc. etc. In fact a good religious exercise would be to update and modify theological language and metaphors to better reflect our modern understanding of the world and some degree of commitment to experience, science and reason.
  • Nils Loc
    1.4k
    Part of the problem is that human language is inherently anthropomorphic and anthropocentric.prothero

    Yes, it would seem the OP is full of contradiction because of this (anthropomorphic, figurative, general and unclear language). As a result I don't really understand what BrianW is rambling about.

    It could just as well be about the supposed pitfalls of unyielding ideology of theoretical certainty or a way of doing things.

    Anthropomorphism is rather harmless if we aren't taking ourselves so seriously and claim it as unassailable truth (like some theists do). Since we are for the most part social creatures we enjoy the presence of other human beings (and all their qualities and features which might give us the illusion of comforting presence).
  • BrianW
    999
    Part of the problem is that human language is inherently anthropomorphic and anthropocentric.prothero

    Yes, common usage has been towards anthropo-morphic/centric ends. But, we have the discipline to shade whichever meaning we choose and direct our philosophies and beliefs towards more comprehensive causes.

    it would seem the OP is full of contradiction because of this (anthropomorphic, figurative, general and unclear language). As a result I don't really understand what BrianW is rambling about.Nils Loc

    The OP is a bit deficient but I hoped the drift would reveal my true intentions. I'm trying to speak out against the many factions of egotism which seem to hide in plain sight such as anthropo-morphism/centrism, human exceptionalism, etc, you name it. We have a tendency to see some of them e.g. anthropomorphism in a generally favourable light which, to me, they're the poison which tastes good and kills slowly. We seem to have reached a stage where one of our major limitations is that we choose to perceive the bigger picture as a 'pinch of salt' in our human 'stew' instead of vice-versa where we're the pinch of salt and the bigger picture is the true delicacy.
    I believe we need to stop the many arguments in favour of any particular method, attitude, discipline, thought, etc., because we've come too far for such limitations to still hold us back. Why would I need one discipline, one philosophy, one attitude? At this point it's rather myopic, isn't it? I can enjoy/participate in multiple sports but I draw the line at multiple concepts? Yes, some may have more pros than others but it's all dependent on need and perspective and philosophers should know it best, perspective is the currency of every discussion. Also, needs change. So, it may even be argued that adopting multiple perspectives is the way towards more comprehensive knowledge and greater success in the overall progress, humans included.

    I'm just saying, we need perspectives and attitudes that are less us and more everything.
  • creativesoul
    12k
    I thought anthropomorphism was what was happening when someone misattributes things(characteristics, traits, other such commonalities) that only humans have to non-humans(usually other life forms).

    :worry:

    Someone saying that their cat is jealous of another cat would be a fine example. Saying that an all knowing, all powerful, and all present being is angry is yet another.
  • creativesoul
    12k
    I thought anthropomorphism was what was happening when someone misattributes things(characteristics, traits, other such commonalities) that only humans have to non-humans(usually other life forms).creativesoul

    If the thread is not discussing how to overcome the above, it carries a poorly chosen title...
  • BrianW
    999
    Someone saying that their cat is jealous of another cat would be a fine example. Saying that an all knowing, all powerful, and all present being is angry is yet another.creativesoul

    These are not things we just say, but also believe and act according to them. After we anthropomorphise existences, we tend to demote them to lesser levels than us humans. There's nothing wrong with a deity or animal expressing emotions, the problem is having them express human-like emotions. Why can't human emotions be reality-like or life-like emotions. For example, we know animals came by, through evolution, earlier than humans. We know animals express emotions albeit rudimentary. Why can't it be that we express animal-like emotions? Now, if our emotions are of a higher grade than animals, why couldn't a deity's emotions be of a higher grade than a humans? The truth is we don't know because we haven't looked past our selves. Like I've been trying to express in my previous posts here, the reason we don't have more objective or comprehensive standards for our disciplines, concepts, attitudes, emotions, thoughts, etc, is not because of the relativity of our perspectives, but because of the pronounced egotism which manifests in ways such as anthropo-morphism/centrism, human exceptionalism and others (please feel free to add if you've got more).

    I know at some point it was ok to anthropomorphise stuff to be able to better relate to them. It's like how we teach kids that there is the sun, moon and stars. However, at some point, they need to realise that what they call stars may be suns, planets or even moons. The same with us, we need to realise that reality is not limited to our perception of it. That's why I gave it that title, which I admit, is in itself deficient but, suppose the thought process attempts to go from a particular to generals, perhaps there's merit in that... ?
  • creativesoul
    12k
    Seems like you're grouping a bunch of separate philosophical issues together and wanting to address the group on a whole. That would, in my opinion, do a great disservice or injustice to otherwise perfectly intelligible notions.

    I suggest breaking them apart and dealing with them separately.
  • Andrew4Handel
    2.5k
    I think human exceptionalismBrianW

    There is lots of evidence of human exceptionalism especially in language, technology and culture.

    Anthropomorphism is the attempt to attribute these exceptional attributes too widely and inappropriately.

    It is not a case of degrading other entities but rather of of spreading attributes falsely. If something shares a property truly with humans we need proper evidence of this rather than insinuation.

    People are selective about what they attribute to what I think for ideological reasons. I am open for anythings to share attributes with good evidence and with a causal account but not through insinuation.

    Particular grim examples is calling chimps people and calling brain damaged people vegetables.
  • Andrew4Handel
    2.5k
    This is amusing satire.

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