i have to read up on what mental phenomena is. Thanks for your response, ill be back on here. — Ranger
Kevin robs a bank, consciously he is doing it for the money but unbeknownst to him he is institutionalised and subconsciously he wants to return to prison. — JupiterJess
Wittgenstein addresses this in his 'Brown' book, and I agree with his interpretation of the disagreement. Some prefer that 'thought' only be applied to what others would call 'conscious thought.' It's a question of grammar. (He connects this to an understanding of solipsism that makes it automatically true by redefining ordinary words). Is there any disagreement deeper than this cosmetic preference? — macrosoft
For me it's still about an interpretation of the terms. Most would agree that we are only partially aware of our own psyches. For instance, where do memories come from and disappear to ? I remember 'those are pearls that were his eyes.' That phrase came to me 'randomly' when I decided I needed an example of a 'stored phrase' or 'unconscious thought.' And then, if I remember Freud correctly, he would say that this retrieval was not 'random,' but subject to some kind of law (an assumption that makes a science of association possible.) — macrosoft
So the real issue, which isn't simply a terminological issue, is whether memories always exist just like they do when you're aware of them, — Terrapin Station
In my opinion, that's a tangential issue — macrosoft
I respect that position, but my natural response is to question what it means for something to exist. — macrosoft
I don't think that's anything complicated. Exists=obtains, occurs, is instantiated, etc.--whatever synonym we want to use. — Terrapin Station
EXAMPLES
Does she love me? (Does love exist in her 'heart' for me?)
Am I talented at painting/music/etc? (Does real quality exist in my work?)
Do you get me? ('Does the meaning in my 'head' also exist in yours')
There is a God. (Is this really a statement about an object for physicists? I don't know exactly what theists mean. Some of them might not themselves. But I think they mostly don't mean what some of their critics take them to mean.)
The correspondence theory of truth is true. (This has some weird problems. How does this theory exist? And to what does it itself correspond that is mind-independent?) — macrosoft
Note that your attempt to define 'exist' was basically a list of synonyms. — macrosoft
You'd have to explain the different ways that you think that people are using "exist" in more detail, without just trying to contextually hint at it without spelling it out. — Terrapin Station
Meet Kevin. — Wayfarer
We need only look to the OP. Is there a subconscious? Does a subconscious exist? How this entity is supposed to exist is the crucial factor. If someone thinks that thoughts exist consciously (adverb on exist), then they might answer no. Ontology, epistemology, and identity are all entangled in the same field of meaning. I mention identity because epistemological frameworks are held self-consciously. People identify with science, logic, hermeneutic ontology, anti-foundationism, various religions, mysticism, skepticism. They don't enter stage right with no method at all either. And they persuade and are persuaded not only in terms of their conscious method (argument versus explorative discussion vs etc.) but also by presenting/perceiving possible ways of being (new self-conceptions.) From one perspective this might seem like a digression, but from a holistic perspective it's an attempt to put the 'tree' in the context of the 'forest.' — macrosoft
I read all of that and I haven't the faintest idea what any of the alternate senses of "exist" are that you might be proposing. — Terrapin Station
I have the impression that you are focusing on whether something exists. It's a binary predicate in the same way in all of the different contexts I mentioned. — macrosoft
In my view--I'm a nominalist and a physicalist--only material particulars and their particular, dynamic relations exist (with the dynamic relations supervening on however the material stuff is situated and however it moves). — Terrapin Station
But I assume that you will grant that this idea itself exists in some fashion or another. — macrosoft
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