Break down our belief in knowledge being correlative to an external reality as it is. Instead All of our senses are our own creations, relative to our own bodies, and not the window into an external objective world. — Jonah Tobias
Now picture the simplest amoeba- moving towards things and away- and as it gets complex and evolves it turns eventually into a human being, ducking under branches and jumping over rocks and emitting complex sounds and making sophisticated movements. And in correlation to this sophisticated actor is an internal world just as sophisticated. But what started out not seeking the nature of reality but rather- seeking how the organism could change itself to better thrive in the world- why should all the complication convince us this has changed? — Jonah Tobias
Life must be seen as an art- again especially like the art of fighting. There is no right or wrong way- just a million different styles of varying quality. We're always inside of a perspective gaining feedback from the world- self learning and hopefully improving our style. The urge to step outside of life and see things as they really are is illusory. Only a particular life can see. The world itself is constant change- not thought or vision or anything like that. — Jonah Tobias
For most spiritual traditions teach that god must be approached not as something to be conquered dissected and pinned down with the intellect- but rather the intellect and the ego can be an obstacle. Spirituality is something to obey rather than understand and control. Something beyond us, bigger than us, that we must do our best to surrender to. — Jonah Tobias
The animalistic philosophy of truth takes truth away from the idea that our reason can play god- take a question from our own thrownness and apply it to the entirety of reality itself- and instead teaches that our reason can make us better animals. Reality Itself- God or spirituality- is not to be delimited by the mind. It reaches us from beyond our concepts. — Jonah Tobias
All of our senses are our own creations, relative to our own bodies, and not the window into an external objective world. — Jonah Tobias
This organism now has an advantage! Now maybe "things to extend your tentacle towards" is what the organism "sees" every time a slight vibration up to a certain intensity is felt. And "things to extend your tentacle away from" is everything at a higher intensity than this. This type of knowledge isn't fool proof- mistakes will be made- but it does seem like it might give the organism an advantage. — Jonah Tobias
Really I start with the idea that the whole world is Becoming- constant flux- change- This is itself an assumption but we're always "thrown"- starting from some type of assumption and besides- this is what Science suggests. — Jonah Tobias
Action is first order- and knowledge is created in order to stamp upon the world of flux signposts to the actions we should take. — Jonah Tobias
My answer is that being doesn't arise. being is just the name for a certain type of becoming. — Jonah Tobias
I don't know how to quote like you guys do. lol Ok- so these are great replies Macrosoft. You've hit upon a central theme of this theory of truth. What is this truth we seek... this "truth not just for me" but "Truth for all of us"... Just like one god for all of us. One Belief system for all of us... can you tell I'm skeptical already? — Jonah Tobias
The greatest thing we can say I think is some truth is so useful, its almost always useful for every being. — Jonah Tobias
Because the Truly- the Really- the emotionally meaningful is what guides the logic to begin with. — Jonah Tobias
Your mind must be balanced with your heart and your gut and your emotions and your spiritual sense. — Jonah Tobias
We're just animals. Like monkeys. Or turtles. — Jonah Tobias
I realize I keep flipping back and forth between using truth in the representational sense and in the pragmatic sense... I'm not sure if this contradiction can or should be resolved. I think it further demonstrates the limits of thought. — Jonah Tobias
Our sentences cease being logical points and are reintroduced as interventions in life. Of course we don't want to give way to a shallow pragmatism of truth- Its true because I want it to be true! No instead, we want to get beyond just logic to a deeper source of truth. Truth should not be about control- the urge for the mind to control- to say once and for all "This is that!" — Jonah Tobias
I laughed out loud at this one. — Jonah Tobias
I have read William James and so many others but nothing in about the last 10 years so bear with me if I don't know whose arguments I may be using. — Jonah Tobias
when I say that something is real. It is what I must react to. Where as if something is fake- or false- I can dismiss it- and hold onto instead a different understanding- that which it really is. "This is not an opportunity to get rich- (discard that) its a scam (react to that)!" — Jonah Tobias
Its only when we sketch out each part- the epistemology, the psychology, even the politics or ethics- that as it were we construct a mutually reinforcing home for these thoughts to live. We create an operating system. — Jonah Tobias
For truth you could appeal to common usage- science- religion- shame or ethics or taboo- predictability/repeatability- pragmatism- passion- lack of passion- etc...and all of these bases of truth might shape your worldview at different moments. So I think its not just that we can't see this operating system because its so big or because we're always in it- but because it is shifting with many pockets and networks and webs of related and mutually determining ideas with varying relations to others. Its multiple. — Jonah Tobias
Pragmatism seems to suggest a more exploitative concept of truth- truth is what benefits us. Whereas my animalistic concept of truth suggests that truth is what creates us (hopefully in a manner that benefits us). — Jonah Tobias
It adds a dynamism to our thought- it is the type of thinking that befits the "over-man", the Hegelian-Nietzschean constantly evolving dialectical becoming type of person. And this certainly goes a long way towards warding off shallow pragmatisms and the Last Man. — Jonah Tobias
The objects of the physical sciences form the lower orders in the hierarchy of existence, more extensive but less significant. Thus the atoms of the physicist may indeed be found in the organisation of conscious beings, but they are subordinate: a living organism exhibits actions which cannot be formulated by the laws of physics alone; man is material, but he is also a great deal more.[8] — Schiller
Truth is a process that creates our experienced world. — Jonah Tobias
This is what is great in Heidegger, IMV. What I get from him is not arguments but the revelation of things that were always there without me grasping them conceptually. He analyzes the evolution of human clocks in terms of care. By really looking into the concept of time he opens man's essentially historical existence. — macrosoft
In short, we don't start from zero. We start within some kind of 'circle' of the meaning of existence. It's a circle because it is the meaning for us of the world in which we live. I'd say that we extend and brighten that circle. — macrosoft
Ah I was trying to place where the talk of time but not the time of the clock and "care" came from... Heidegger! Heidegger's interesting for me because when I was really reading this stuff I was an atheist and very Nietzschean and I followed Heidegger in all his thrownness, Neitzschean resonating talk- But then when he got to the sort of disclosure more Eastern sounding aspects I was "thrown" off lol. — Jonah Tobias
But then after my philosophical journey came my spiritual journey- and I began to believe after arguing for only beliefs- that there was capital T Truth... Only we don't possess or create it. We can only listen to it. — Jonah Tobias
To put it clear. I believe from my own experiences, that among the other experiences of spirituality- there is a kind of knowing that one can listen to. It is very quiet, especially at first. But the more one listens, the louder it gets. To me it is an obeying, but I'm also Jewish and I've noted different peoples seem to have a different relation/concept of spirituality (Christians go to India and they still talk all about love and christ consciousness lol). — Jonah Tobias
Now this opens up a chilling line of thought for me as a Jew discussing Heidegger. I always thought about this spiritual voice- that like Kierkegarrds discussion of Abraham and Isaac- the Big T Truth is anything but Humanist! It follows no rules at all that we can proscribe. The chilling prospect of giving up your will to it is that it could tell you to do something monstrous.
Can you imagine what a monstrous possibility that is?
What if God told Heidegger all the Jews should be sent to camps!!! — Jonah Tobias
I read the Schiller wikipedia article you attached. and I remember reading some of the pragmatists... here's the thing for me- For some reason I do get excited about some of their ideas- but more often than not, they seem to quiet my thoughts. To replace thinking with common sense. it almost seems like a quieting of philosophy some how. — Jonah Tobias
Can you explain this to me? — Jonah Tobias
After Studying philosophy I decided to go try and live it and basically- start revolution lol These days I'm primarily a musician and community organizer. — Jonah Tobias
But the more pieces you throw into the air- the better chance you have that they may coalesce and form a new orbit. — Jonah Tobias
This is my view of revolution in both thought and society. You work on one aspect- and then another- and then another- and its only after enough aspects have been altered that the big picture begins to emerge. — Jonah Tobias
I notice that you don't speak of two circles- you speak of brightening the one. Which is beautiful. And I think this metaphor works too. And here instead of two separate circles- you add enough to its rings that suddenly the whole circle starts to rotate around a different center. For me this circle we're born into is often very isolationist and solitary- from the individual to the nuclear family. And the new center I seek- is also the old center. Tribe. — Jonah Tobias
Really I start with the idea that the whole world is Becoming- constant flux- change- This is itself an assumption but we're always "thrown"- starting from some type of assumption and besides- this is what Science suggests. Once we thought the world was composed of atoms (beings)- but that was replaced with a world of waves- energy- constant change. So once we assume the world is constant change or becoming- how does being first arise? — Jonah Tobias
So what is that becoming that creates this type of becoming we call being, or identity?
The point is this- why would any animal or simple organism have any type of perception or awareness if it could not alter its behavior?
So now that we have two different ways of being in the world- if this is done at random,
Forget "Trees" or "Speeding Vehicles" or the color "red" or "Blue".. all of these are more complex identities. None of these exist in the world of the simplest organism.
In my view the world is dynamic ("becoming"/changing), but it's not nothing that's dynamic, there has to be something ("being") that is changing, or the notion is incoherent — Terrapin Station
It seems weird to me here that you jump from nuts and bolts ontological ideas to specific issues in philosophy of perception. — Terrapin Station
So now that we have two different ways of being in the world- if this is done at random,
This is not a mini-rant directed specifically at you. You just brought it up. ;-) — Terrapin Station
But creatures easily do discriminate between such things, regardless of whatever interpretational apparatus you're relying on to parse them as "complex." — Terrapin Station
I almost wish there was something like a twitter limiter on post length. — Terrapin Station
What is common and already widely understood is easily communicated through a sentence or two. What is different and doesn't want to be understood through old perspectives requires explanation. — Jonah Tobias
Think of the person who says something mean- and everyone feels bad- and then another person who finds this ridiculous- and laughs at it- and then everyone laughs. The mean person's perspective is now discarded in exchange for the perspective of the one who laughs. — Jonah Tobias
Life must be seen as an art — Jonah Tobias
But instead it was later seen that these atoms were actually energy- waves- — Jonah Tobias
It may seem weird to you but if becoming is primary- then how does being arise at all? In what state is "being" real? — Jonah Tobias
this act of treating "constant change" as if it were "the identical" is something created by life. — Jonah Tobias
. . . On the other, for common understanding, we can say that they are. — Jonah Tobias
Creatures don't discriminate between "Blue" or "red" when they don't have eyes. — Jonah Tobias
Do you think Hegel or Heidegger could have made their impact through twitter? — Jonah Tobias
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.