Yes she could have, if she had held the strong belief that the risk of driving drunk was so great that it outweighed her impulse to do so. This could only have occurred had there been something different about the past (formation of that belief), but that's reasonable. — Relativist
As a thought experiment: In the actual world, you are presented with a choice between X and Y. You deliberate on the options, weighing pros &cons consistent with your background beliefs and dispositions, and you ultimately choose X (possibly influenced by some sudden impulse). Is there a possible world with an identical history to this one, so that you have exactly the same background beliefs, desires and impulses at the point at which the choice is presented - but you instead choose Y? If yes, then your choice is made for no reason (this seems to be what LFW gets you). If no, then your choice has been caused (consistent with determinism). — Relativist
I was giving one example of a difference in the past that might have made a difference. For example, a near miss where she almost kills someone or herself.Right, IF her past had been different, she would have been raised in such a way as to potentially care and emphasize moral values. However, in the scenario you provide, she was not, in fact, raised that way. — Mentalusion
No. I mentioned that the choice was a product of beliefs, disposition, and impulse. In impulsive choice is not rational, but the impulse is the reason for it.The conclusions of the thought experiment seem to be committed to the view that the only appropriate choice or decision is the one that has a preponderance of reason in its favor. — Mentalusion
Of course, keep in mind that I'm of the view that compatibilism can't be made coherent in the first place. — Terrapin Station
In your initial post, i don't think that you're describing compatibilism in either 1 or 2. — Terrapin Station
I'm not making an argumentum ad populum. I'm noting that each of us has a natural reaction to such deeds as I've described, and it is these natural reactions that are the basis for assigning responsibility.I still think that argumentum ad populums are fallacies. — Terrapin Station
no alternative decision could have been made — Relativist
Then it's not actually a choice and not compatibilist. There's no actual (ontological) freedom involved. — TerrapinStation
It is a choice by definition (a choice is a behavior in which a person has multiple options before them, and selects one) — Relativist
Multiple options are available, — Relativist
Not if "no alternative decision could have been made." — Terrapin Station
Not if "no alternative decision could have been made." — Terrapin Station
Yeah, i would say that's just determinism, then. I don't see it as a semantic issue, really. I don't think it matters what we call anything. I just don't see how we can have both ontological freedom and ontological determinism at the same time (whatever we call them). — Terrapin Station
I mildly object to saying a decision is predetermined. Saying the decision was "predetermined" can be interpreted to mean the same decision would be made irrespective of the cognitive processes the agent engages in. I stress that the agent's specific cognitive processes were necessary to the reaching of the decision, even though no other decision could have been made given the full set of characteristics of the agent. This is relevant to avoiding fatalism. An agent's role is an active one.I take it, hower, that when Relativist speaks of alternatives, s/he is speaking of a range of options that merely appear open to the agent, for all she knows; since a deliberating agent never (or very seldom) is in an epistemic position where she would know in advance what decision she is being predetermined to make. — Pierre-Normand
I mildly object to saying a decision is predetermined. Saying the decision was "predetermined" can be interpreted to mean the same decision would be made irrespective of the cognitive processes the agent engages in. I stress that the agent's specific cognitive processes were necessary to the reaching of the decision, even though no other decision could have been made given the full set of characteristics of the agent. This is relevant to avoiding fatalism. An agent's role is an active one. — Relativist
I mildly object to saying a decision is predetermined. Saying the decision was "predetermined" can be interpreted to mean the same decision would be made irrespective of the cognitive processes the agent engages in. I stress that the agent's specific cognitive processes were necessary to the reaching of the decision, even though no other decision could have been made given the full set of characteristics of the agent. This is relevant to avoiding fatalism. An agent's role is an active one. — Relativist
Sure - and they ARE effectively predetermined. I'm drawing the distinction between entailment and causation. Per determinism, the decision is a truth that is entailed by the truths at the big bang. The logic parallels the causation: Big bang truth ->entails a logical chain of truths->entails the truth of the decision. The transitive property applies to the logic, so it's valid to say: big bang truth ->entails truth of the decision. Although this is valid logic, causation unfolds in a temporal sequence and each step in the sequence is necessary to the next (i.e. the transitive property does not apply to the causal sequence). This means we are warranted in considering the necessary role of the immediate cause of the decision.If they are, then effectively, any decision is predetermined and we're not talking about compatibilism. — Terrapin Station
Sure - and they ARE effectively predetermined. I'm drawing the distinction between entailment and causation. Per determinism, the decision is a truth that is entailed by the truths at the big bang. The logic parallels the causation: Big bang truth ->entails a logical chain of truths->entails the truth of the decision. The transitive property applies to the logic, so it's valid to say: big bang truth ->entails truth of the decision. Although this is valid logic, causation unfolds in a temporal sequence and each step in the sequence is necessary to the next (i.e. the transitive property does not apply to the causal sequence). This means we are warranted in considering the necessary role of the immediate cause of the decision. — Relativist
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