The problem is when the preparation is not done efficiently — Πετροκότσυφας

Preparation for what? Efficiently?

To be an adult. — Πετροκότσυφας

What does that mean?

Depends on where you live. — Πετροκότσυφας

So, let's analyze that for the predominantly normative equilibrium of Westerners on this forum?

I don't think that the term "Westerner" is useful. Where I am it usually means many legal rights and obligations which you don't have as a minor, such as being able to vote, work, sign contracts, possibly face consequences if you breach them etc. It also usually means having to study and/or find work, eventually being able to pay your bills and expenses from your own earnings, probably having a family and being able to provide for it, care for your parents when they get old. This kind of stuff. — Πετροκότσυφας

So, why is such a conception of human nature distilled into a simple matter of self-reliance? Can, I invoke the concept of "society" here without duress?

What is it about a society that engenders a prescriptive ethics (if you will) of what a functioning atomic unit of a personae constitutes an individual to that of becoming an "adult"?

Still too advanced for me to understand what you're asking. — Πετροκότσυφας

OK, so to phrase it another way. What constitutes an "adult" in your opinion?

age of majority — Πετροκότσυφας

What's that?

The age at which these rights and responsibilities are granted to individuals by law. — Πετροκότσυφας

And who dictates such a law?

Depends on the political system. — Πετροκότσυφας

And what does the political system depends on? The people, yes?

I feel ya buddy.

Society is just changing a little to fast and culture is trying to play catch up.

My entire childhood I isolated myself by fear which I think probably has to do with a traumatic encounter in preschool. My development into an adult has been retarded. I'm afraid of my sexual preference. I work in a place where I don't want to work. I have no friends. I don't carry much value in these forums (i might as well be talking to myself). There has been little effort on my part to culture a discipline. I can't sleep and have stomach problems. Those whom I love will die when the next 10 to 20 years. My sister will go on to live her own life.

I think the best thing for me now is try to find good company and a discipline that will increase my market value. Changing my job would be an exercise in independence. Finding a friend that is embodied and is not flattened by the rules of language games and intractable puzzles (philosophy). The healthy often seek the healthy. Though a friend requires you to love as loving sustains the reciprocity of friendship. Friends require all the things that friends require.

How does one learn to love others? If one doesn't love oneself, how can one love others?

If one doesn't love or feel much, how can one possibly condition right action?

Submit yourself to a system of work and work that yields value. Work to work better. Try not to think so much about non-practical puzzles. Abandon the forum. Abstain from philosophy. Learn to play an instrument for someone rather than for yourself. Do good works for an audience. Dance (perform work) for an audience. Do something you can be proud of through the judgement of others.

We babes are all marionettes in the end, who dream of growing into ourselves through others.

Deep in the ocean, dead and cast away
Where innocence is burned, in flames
A million miles from home, I'm walking ahead
I'm frozen to the bones, I am

A soldier on my own, I don't know the way
I'm riding up the heights, of shame
I'm waiting for the call, the hand on the chest
I'm ready for the fight, and fate

The sound of iron shots is stuck in my head
The thunder of the drums, dictates
The rhythm of the falls, the number of deaths
The rising of the horns, ahead

From the dawn of time to the end of days
I will have to run, away
I want to feel the pain and the bitter taste
Of the blood on my lips, again

This deadly burst of snow is burning my hands
I'm frozen to the bones, I am
A million miles from home, I'm walking away
I can't remind your eyes, your face

Perhaps I should mention in all this that I am on disability. I never cared about money and live on what subsistence from the government provides. I feel like an outsider to society, which doesn't bother me; but is a nuisance to ones collective consciousness.

I have a job prospect lined up to move out to Nevada and work for a friend; but I can't find the motivation to do so. Since I don't care about money, that compounds the persistent apathy.

I don't really feel afraid of death and sometimes wish it would already arrive. I doubt I would ever actively hasen its arrival as I don't want to be the source of grief for someone I care about dearly (my mother).

Oh well, there's my story anyway.

I think you are grouping things together to support a particular narrative. I do this too. The choice between being able to describe what is happening a certain way versus a desire to put oneself outside of the story has been the most consistent problem that keeps coming back up when there is something that I cannot get rid of. I am tired of the way I keep coming back into the story. But getting used to things seems to be a big part of what is going on.

So, I think the narrative that gets used most often is not compelling because it lacks something. It stands as a sign for a desire i am not the narrator for. Your fractured process is yours. Just like mine, nobody is interested in stealing it. As much as you do not like it, nobody is going to take it away.

That observation relates to the problem of turning kids into adults because some people think they know what that means and others do not. Being one of the latter category, I teach on that basis. And my kid sees that for what it is.

We are visible to other people and in many ways, their perceptions are correct.

We go through life, listening to our parents until we are 18, and then poof. You're on your own? — Wallows

That isn't mandatory. Is it your experience? Most people move gradually from childhood to adulthood, helped, guided and protected by their parents, schools and maybe churches. :chin:

That isn't mandatory. Is it your experience? — Pattern-chaser

From my father's side, yes. My mother has been supremely supportive of me.

Then it isn't your experience. Whose experience is it?

Then it isn't your experience. Whose experience is it? — Pattern-chaser

Hypothetically speaking, anyone.

But you introduced the topic by asserting that experience...?

But you introduced the topic by asserting that experience...? — Pattern-chaser

Specifically on my end of the spectrum, then from my father, yes.

No, you weren't just let go, your mother supported you. So you have not had the experience you speculate upon. So who has? :chin:

No, you weren't just let go, your mother supported you. So you have not had the experience you speculate upon. So who has? :chin: — Pattern-chaser

I'm not specifically talking about "me" here. I was generalizing for other people who might have experienced something similar or the same.

My experience was completely like this. Completely controlled as a child with no preparation for adulthood. Then turn 17 and expected to fend for myself.

I was generalizing for other people who might have experienced something similar or the same. — Wallows

...without actually knowing if anyone did experience what you did not! :wink:

My experience was completely like this. Completely controlled as a child with no preparation for adulthood. Then turn 17 and expected to fend for myself. — Andrew4Handel

Ah, here's someone with actual experience. :smile:

I am not sure how beneficial parents can be for their child's future.

Maybe if you are a millionaire you can support your child for life taken all financial pressure off them.

I don't know if parents or a child know what is best for the child.

But it does seem problematic to infantalize a child a child and leave them with no Independence or coping mechanisms.

My experience was completely like this. Completely controlled as a child with no preparation for adulthood. Then turn 17 and expected to fend for myself. — Andrew4Handel

My own experience was very much like this. I wasn’t completely controlled, but there wasn’t much preparation either. Once out there I found my way by trial and error. The fact that I survived doesn’t necessarily mean I learned the right things.

What does adulthood mean? It can’t be age because there are many “adults” out there who behave like children. Being a parent can accelerate that state, but then many parents mess up their children by behaving like children..

Maybe the question needs a bit of clarity. Adulthood might be cultural, but each culture seems to use it in a knowing way.

What kind of maniacal mind comes up with this? — Wallows

This is your question, though. Right? Why is it this way?

What kind of maniacal mind comes up with this?[/quote

Most of my thoughts are Darwinian based, so I tend to view everything from that perspective.

The evolutionary drive of man is to procreate, reproduce the species in numbers that offers greater chance of survival and passing on of genes, then nurturing and support of the young until they are able to set out and begin their own version of the same story.

For male and female the offerings are different. A son might help to support the family, a girl is a burden to be married off, maybe in exchange for something beneficial to the family.

The father anticipates the son staying around. But how does the son find a wife? Maybe from within the tribe or village or neighbouring village. But if, for whatever reason, there are no women to chose from, none suitable, then the young man must set out on his own.
At what age would he do it? When he feels the need for a women and when he feels strong enough, physically or mentally, to go it alone. This is how genes are spread, and maybe good genes at that if he proves himself good enough to survive.

He doesn’t know much except what he’s bothered to learn or what was forced upon him. Many of those things may be of no use to him in the new world. Prepared or not he goes anyway. He can’t refuse.

This is a very old story. The young man who goes out into the world; the journey of the archetypal hero.

That same event happens in all cultures, but sometimes it remains merely symbolic; the rituals of entering adulthood, even 21st birthdays. — Wallows