I know when I've done too much. — S
Keep in mind you're against Socrates, not for yourself, not against me. — tim wood
I think that's true in most cases, but pragmatism isn't necessarily a virtue. We do all sorts of things that have no utility. An ethic of pragmatism sounds pretty dull. — Hanover
There are many who live their lives taking various recreational drugs throughout their lives (not me, by the way) and live happy lives. — Hanover
Usually, you find that fact out the hard way, with habit-forming drugs. Or your closest friend tells you to need to sign up for rehab over your benzodiazepine habit. If you're lucky, your family will notice a change in behavior and they might chime in also. — Wallows
No way in Hell I'm going to think we should follow laws just because they're laws. — Terrapin Station
Do you know of any law that is a law just because it is a law?
— tim wood
No, but what's the relevance of that (aside from not understanding a common idiom, which seems to be symptomatic around here.) — Terrapin Station
Are you sure it is immoral to break the law?
— Drek
Socrates thought so. — tim wood
He was wrong, as are you if you think likewise. It's not difficult to convincingly argue against.
— S
Argue against what? Against Socrates's argument? Not difficult? Please proceed. Make your case against Socrates. I'll attend. — tim wood
I'm not interested in simply arguing against Socrates. — S
Yes, finding out the hard way, but that doesn't have to be the end of the world. You can learn a lesson and adjust appropriately going forward. It doesn't have to be rehab, addiction, or an alarming change in behaviour. That's just resorting to more extreme circumstances in an attempt to bolster your argument. — S
American Revolution happened on that basis. — Drek
So. "He was wrong," and, "not difficult to convincingly argue against." But you're not interested. Sorry, you're not meeting minimum standards for a discussion, here. It's admittedly prudent to back away from arguing with Socrates; try to do it with a little more grace. — tim wood
So, I have no idea what is your point here. — Wallows
I want to have my cake and eat it too? — Wallows
Usually, I don't know people addicted to drugs that can moderate their use over long periods of time. — Wallows
You have extraneous factors contributing to one's demise, like stress from a job that exacerbates drug use, or tolerance, or responsibilities conflicting with one's drug use. — Wallows
Maybe in a perfect world, you get to have your cake and eat it too; but, I don't see this happening unless you're fabulously rich or some other factors. — Wallows
So, in my own words, your whole premise is that it's immoral to prevent one from being able to indulge in any drug because it's limiting one's freedom? — Wallows
But, how? Drugs are addictive? How do you moderate their use on an individual level? — Wallows
here's no good reason to think that there are or could be no unjust laws. Examples can be provided if need be, but that really shouldn't be necessary. And I have no duty to follow unjust laws. Why would I? Do you have an argument for that or not? I don't want to be wasting my time here. — S
Sure, I agree with Socrates argument as to the morality of breaking the law. I find his argument in Crito. I refer to it, because it's tedious to reproduce it here. You can find it on line easily. — tim wood
You keep backing away from the proposition and your claim. Of course there are laws most of us can agree are unjust, and perhaps they even are unjust. Your solution appears to along the lines of nullification and revolution. Either is destructive of the state. But if you want to know Socrates's argument spend just a few minutes with the Crito. — tim wood
So, you agree that heroin, methamphetamine, and cocaine have no use to people due to their addictive nature? — Wallows
One doesn't just walk into Mordor unnoticed. It's hell to use those drugs even once. — Wallows
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