It's a book. You either understand it in some comprehensive sense or you do not understand it in that sense. No delusions involved. Your claim that it does not make sense because some of it does not make sense (assuming that what can be understood makes at least some sense), is itself without sense and without understanding, and a mistake in reasoning.Your idea that you understand the bible more than X is simply a delusion in my opinion. I think it is impossible to understand something that does not make sense. — Andrew4Handel
I am no apologist for the bible. I am clear that as a book it does have a message - notwithstanding what anyone thinks of that message. If all you're about is some sentences in that book that are inconsistent with some other sentences of that book, then have at it; they're certainly there. But none of that is the theme. Here: it's as if, learning that sub-atomic particles do not account for all the matter, you were to argue that my table is not solid - and that would be a foolish argument, wouldn't it. So make a good argument if you have one, and not a foolish one.You don't have to be an atheist or ruthless logician to see glaring problems and I have highlighted the the main problem of completely incompatible and contradictory claims and I am only criticizing biblical literalism and truth claims here not alternative analysis of biblical meaning. — Andrew4Handel
My objective is how to find truth in the midst of conflicting or contradictory claims.
I think we all face the dilemma of finding truth when there are so many claims on the table that are not all compatible. — Andrew4Handel
Which is to say you got what someone told you, with whatever slant they applied. Which is not the bible - and that applies to any book. You're choice, you can read it and try to understand it, or not. If you don't, then it's not really the bible you're criticizing, but your own thoughts of it which i infer include considerable disappointment and anger. Or would were I you. Now, what the bible is about, is covenants, particular covenants, how they they changed, and what the changes mean (to us). Is that your understanding?I spent my whole childhood having the bible read to me everyday for 17 years. — Andrew4Handel
I mentioned atrocities as being a strong incentive to critically assess religion but that can apply to any belief. — Andrew4Handel
You cannot successfully defend religious atrocities by pointing out other atrocities. — Andrew4Handel
If all you're about is some sentences in that book that are inconsistent with some other sentences of that book, — tim wood
I have found the responses on this thread very disheartening and depressing. — Andrew4Handel
I'll speak for my own replies. I am by no means defending the bible nor any part of it. But I am interested in what it is, and such remarks as I have made about it apply equally to any book. Your error and my warning concerns your equating the parts of the book with the whole of the book. Break through that, and some light may dawn that whatever your encounter with this book, it has not been with the book itself as a book. And we could say the same of Moby Dick, A Tale of Two Cities, The Origin of Species, and so on, if any of those were the book in question.I have found the responses on this thread very disheartening and depressing. — Andrew4Handel
The thread was originally about the effect of contradiction on truths but the response has been people defending the bible. — Andrew4Handel
I was brought up to believe that the Bible was infallible and True. Then as a young adult I discovered a website concerning numerous contradictions in the bible.
As Abraham Lincoln famously said, "Do not believe everything that you read on the Internet."Then as a young adult I discovered a website concerning numerous contradictions in the bible. — Andrew4Handel
Regarding the first issue, the consensus among Christians is that the only unforgivable sin, which Jesus called "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost," is rejecting the forgiveness that God otherwise offers. Regarding the second issue, the restrictions that Jesus imposed on His disciples (Matthew 10) and that the Holy Ghost imposed on Paul (Acts 16) were clearly intended only for those specific occasions, not applicable for all time.Issues such as are there unforgivable sins
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/unforgivable.html
and who should the gospel be preached to
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/samaritans.html — Andrew4Handel
You started right in from the very beginning attacking the Bible specifically — Jake
I am not really interested in trying to deal with every alleged contradiction in the Bible — aletheist
I explained why two of the alleged contradictions are not actual contradictions. As you said yourself ...It is not alleged contradictions. — Andrew4Handel
I am obviously not going to take the time to deal with all 490 other alleged contradictions. My point was mainly to illustrate my approach to what you supposedly wanted to discuss in this thread.If someone wants to refute the claim that the bible contradicts itself then they can prove that by refuting a given example of a contradiction. — Andrew4Handel
When you encounter an apparent contradiction, I advocate being a charitable reader, which means treating consistency as the default interpretation and attributing actual contradictions to any piece of writing only as a last resort.But what concerns me here is when you do have a contradiction how you maintain or discover the truth. — Andrew4Handel
If you cannot work that out why should I waste any more words? — Andrew4Handel
On the contrary, you are repeatedly asserting your own dogmatic beliefs about the Bible. Why start the thread at all, if your mind was already made up?I am referring to what the bible actually says and not Christians believe. — Andrew4Handel
Again, when we encounter an apparent contradiction in any piece of writing, I advocate being a charitable reader, treating consistency as the default interpretation and attributing actual contradictions only as a last resort. — aletheist
On the contrary, you are repeatedly asserting your own dogmatic beliefs about the Bible. — aletheist
I advocate being a charitable reader — aletheist
Perhaps you have multiple personalities with different subjective preferences. More seriously, that is an obvious contradiction within the same sentence; I was talking about apparent contradictions across a much larger text, especially one that has been carefully scrutinized by scholars for centuries.So if I write “i like blue skies rather than grey skies, but I like grey skies much more than blue skies”, you would default to the assumption that I easnt being contradicting? — DingoJones
You are repeatedly stating your dogmatic belief that the Bible is contradictory. Even if I were to offer plausible resolutions for all 492 alleged contradictions on that website in which you evidently have placed your faith, it seems unlikely that you would change your mind.I am not stating my own beliefs I have quoted the scripture. — Andrew4Handel
What is the alleged contradiction?How do you apply the principle of charity to this verse? — Andrew4Handel
Only if one is easily persuaded by shallow caricatures.This a great succinct illustration of biblical contradiction. — Andrew4Handel
What is the alleged contradiction? — aletheist
Only if one is easily persuaded by shallow caricatures. — aletheist
As Abraham Lincoln famously said, "Do not believe everything that you read on the Internet." — aletheist
Perhaps you have multiple personalities with different subjective preferences. More seriously, that is an obvious contradiction within the same sentence; I was talking about apparent contradictions across a much larger text, especially one that has been carefully scrutinized by scholars for centuries. — aletheist
I have explained (several times now) what I mean by the principle of charity in this context--treating consistency as the default interpretation and attributing actual contradictions only as a last resort.It is not a case of contradiction but there is no charitable interpretation to give it. — Andrew4Handel
I addressed two alleged contradictions in my very first post in this thread. If I came to believe that you were sincerely seeking the truth, and thus open to changing your mind, I would be glad to discuss others.You have yet to refute one contradiction. — Andrew4Handel
Anyone can quote and compare words written in just about any literary work of significant length to create alleged contradictions. Studying the text as a whole and trying to reconcile them is hard work.The reason I believed it is because it quoted and compared the words written in the bible. — Andrew4Handel
In this particular case, because you were clearly trying to generate an obvious counterexample in an effort to disparage my purported approach. If I came across that same sentence within a poem, I would be inclined to evaluate it differently. Would you like to suggest some other circumstances in which it would make sense?Why wouldnt you assume that my sentence would not be contradictory once you understood its broader context? — DingoJones
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