I what I'm going to comment on here isn't what you're focusing on in this thread, but my moral views are not at all based on suffering, harm or happiness. I think all of those concepts are way too vague to base any moral stances on. — Terrapin Station
What are your moral views based on? — TheMadFool
For example, I'm a free speech absolutist. Some speech is going to offend/upset some people. It's morally wrong to prohibit or to socially pressure speech restrictions in my opinion. — Terrapin Station
I'm sorry but I can't quite bring myself to believe that you really do not understand the difference between 'removing all harm' and 'reducing harm', despite your best attempts to persuade me otherwise.How does a vegan justify the use of anything beyond the bare necessities of life when such luxuries almost universally cause harm to something, somewhere? — Tzeentch
Perhaps we are the most dangerous species, rather than the most violent one. After all, there are other species whose entire life is conflict and predation or parasitism.Do you see, then, the irony (paradox?) that the most violent species, humans, are the ones troubled by their own natural bloodlust? — TheMadFool
I can see how one might take it that way when one comes up against militant vegans that angrily proclaim that anybody who has even tiny bits of animal produce is evil. But I don't think it's fair to characterise an entire movement based on its most extreme fringes.I mean what vegans as a philosophy are advocating, otherwise 'vegan' becomes meaningless. — Isaac
Do you think someone should be allowed to lie and shout fire in a theater when it will cause mass hysteria and people will get hurt in their attempts to escape? — NKBJ
Really? What if its 10 people? Or 50% of the people in the theatre? — DingoJones
So there is never any speech of any kind that you would consider restricting? — DingoJones
And I'd have a category of criminal threatening, but speech wouldn't be sufficient for that, there would need to be some immediate physical threat present--for example, holding someone at gunpoint. — Terrapin Station
Under your rule more rapists would get away than already do, and the current number is shocking enough. — NKBJ
In a similar vein, if I were king it would be impossible to convict anyone of a crime via testimony alone. — Terrapin Station
Way to have a) zero compassion for others. — NKBJ
I don't use a principle-oriented approach for ethics. It seems to me that principle-oriented approaches always lead to absurd stances. It's the ethics version of theory worship.
There are definitely things that amount to harm and unhappiness in some opinions that I think are morally right. For example, I'm a free speech absolutist. Some speech is going to offend/upset some people. It's morally wrong to prohibit or to socially pressure speech restrictions in my opinion. — Terrapin Station
I think it is very hard to justify unnecessary use of a car, which is why I very rarely drive, and try to get as many passengers as possible when I do. The long-term, committed vegans I know feel and act similarly.how does one justify driving a car, which pollutes the atmosphere? — Tzeentch
One doesn't have to justify something for which there is no reasonable alternative. If one is born into such a society, the best one can do is minimise unnecessary consumption. Again, the vegans I know do that.How does one justify living in a consumption based society which inevitably causes suffering to both animals and humans on a large scale? — Tzeentch
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