I agree that religions are very negative. They'd be fine if folks could somehow just keep their beliefs to themselves, but religions massively impact cultural mores, laws, etc. That's not just keeping the beliefs to oneself. — Terrapin Station
You're not an Aspie, are you? Because you seem to be interpreting comments as if you are. — Terrapin Station
Those who value reason and philosophy should be able to recognize and respect the counter position, argue with passion but without a acrimony. — Rank Amateur
Acts 17:22-31 (WEB): 22 Paul stood in the middle of the Areopagus, and said, “You men of Athens, I perceive that you are very religious in all things. 23 For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ What therefore you worship in ignorance, this I announce to you. 24 The God who made the world and all things in it, he, being Lord of heaven and earth, doesn’t dwell in temples made with hands, 25 neither is he served by men’s hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself gives to all life and breath, and all things. 26 He made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the surface of the earth, having determined appointed seasons, and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 that they should seek the Lord, if perhaps they might reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live, and move, and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his offspring.’ 29 Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold, or silver, or stone, engraved by art and design of man. 30 The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because he has appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom he has ordained; of which he has given assurance to all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.” — Bible
I agree that religions are very negative. They'd be fine if folks could somehow just keep their beliefs to themselves, but religions massively impact cultural mores, laws, etc. That's not just keeping the beliefs to oneself. — Terrapin Station
All of the negative aspects of religion exist in other things. So going by Hitchens logic here, its humans poison everything. — AngryBear
Agreed, however I think that atheism is relatively young, and so in time I think people will get to a point where godless philosophy could be used to kill and terrorize. I hope I'm wrong. — AngryBear
AngryBear
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↪S Agreed, however I think Athiesm is relatively young, and so in time I think people will get to a point were godless philosophy could be used to kill and terrorize. I hope i'm wrong. — AngryBear
This is the same bad logic that gun advocates use. You can kill someone with almost anything, therefore we shouldn't ban guns. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Should we ban people?
Except that people kill people with guns, and guns are a good tool for that job. Similarly, terrorists blow people up, and religion is a good tool for creating terrorists. — S
I agree with that line of thought, but do you realize that it does not need to be restricted to fire arms, but to all possible tools and technologies that can be used for harm? If we ban guns because they can be used to kill people, and they are indeed; for the very same reason and more scary stats to support it, we should ban motor vehicles. And kitchen knives (people in London, the capital of knife crimes, will know what I mean). And we need to ban stock markets, as they are used to commit much graver crimes each day that anything you can do with a gun or a knife. This might lead us all the way back to the trees, so there must be other way. — DiegoT
My solution is: to restrict the use of tools that are dangerous to people and places that minimize the risk; for example, only clinically sane people that never were convicted of violent crimes should have them, and not on the streets but in their homes or cars. Religious and political books that advocate violence and hate (Quran, Mein kampff, Comunist Manifesto...) should only be read by people who have critical skills and sufficient cognitive abilities to understand that they are bad, and not by children or ignorant people without those personal defenses. This really means that adults have no right to force these pamphlets on vulnerable people, meaning young children, people with psychological ailments and the iliterate.
The bottom line is that any tool or power in our hands, must go together with the power and responsibility to use it for good and not to harm others or oneself. The advocates of a religion, must prove that their texts and rituals are safe to use by the people are directed to; and they lose the "right" to express that religion (or political ideology) as soon as what they do is not in accordance with the ethical standard of a society.
On the other hand, cults that are ready to prove that they are good for society should be permitted and welcome; for example I think that Wiccans are more good than harm, or Quakers with their eight Peace Nobel prizes (so far). — DiegoT
Or, as I like to call it, false vs. trivial. — S
I do not understand that logic. Can you explain how the difference between abstract and concrete can equal the difference between false vs. trivial? — Athena
I do not agree at all that the concept of an abstract god is trivial. This unknowable God is essential to preventing humans from believing they are the highest power and preventing them from projecting themselves into a concept of a god and believing they can know the know the will of God. All they can know is what is going on in their human minds. They can not know God nor the will of a god. That is something we need to make perfectly clear. The mighty force is not a human force, nor a superhuman force. We must stop projecting ourselves into a notion of this mighty force. — Athena
The Greeks moved away from their gods when they got into math and science. We now know earthquakes, volcanoes, droughts, and hurricane, and so on, happen because of natural cause-effect. The Greeks concluded even the gods were under the law. Unlike the God of Abraham, especially when this God is taken over by Christians, becomes a God who can do anything he wants, and violate any laws of nature He wants to violate. A supernatural god who can be manipulated with our piety, offerings, and rituals. That is a supernatural god far beyond the powers of nature gods, and these Christian yahoos destroyed the pagan temples where math and medicine were taught and set us back thousands of years cutting off from the knowledge that had been gained over many centuries. — Athena
Cicero, one of the most important men in Roman, read by all who were curious of democracy, explained what happens is about nature, cause and effect, and our sacrifices and prayers will not change the consequences of what we say and do. — Athena
However, trying to understand the unknowable god, that mighty force, universal law, the cause and effect that rules our lives, means opening our minds to infinity and all possibilities. Now and only now is there a hope of democracy meaning rule by reason, and not rule by authority over us. This is not trivial and atheist who deny a mighty force greater than their own, are not an improvement. — Athena
Communism is teleological, it has a symbolic metanarrative, all kind of symbols and rituals and texts that are more than texts, and idealized personalities. It doesn´t just organize economic life, but also culture and the very way people think and feel and behave about themselves and family and friends. What more is needed to call it a religion? — DiegoT
First of all, you need to stop saying that it's unknowable if you're going to tell me about it. That's a blatant contradiction. — S
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