But notice that you repeatedly overlook the illegal part of illegal immigration and respond to just immigration. Why should we all be in favor of completely open borders the way you apparently are?

With all due respect and stuff. — frank

That's a complete straw man, and I shouldn't have to keep clarifying that I'm not of this extreme position that yourself and others are hastily confronting me with as though I'm responsible for defending it.

Here's a tip. Look at what I've actually said, as opposed to what you're imagining might be my position, and base your questions to me on the former instead of the latter.

Then you agree that efforts should be undertaken to diminish illegal immigration?

Sure, because they give the Ellis Island Medal to racists. — Inis

So let´s say Trump is a racist, and think Mexicans are a race. So what? People can think and feel what they want in Democracy. They are only required to comply with the law and respect the rights of others. For example, a person might conclude that the only really effective way to reverse climate change is to sacrifice Down children to Azazel, demon of the desert and all that´s hot. So long as he doesn´t even try to kidnap a child or indoctrinate his own offspring with these ideas, we should be okay with it.

Then you agree that efforts should be undertaken to diminish illegal immigration? — frank

Of course, within reason, and so as not to override other priorities higher up the list. Which obviously means that I'm not necessarily in favour of spending shit loads on a massive wall.

So let´s say Trump is a racist, and think Mexicans are a race. So what? People can think and feel what they want in Democracy. They are only required to comply with the law and respect the rights of others. For example, a person might conclude that the only really effective way to reverse climate change is to sacrifice Down children to Azazel, demon of the desert and all that´s hot. So long as he doesn´t even try to kidnap a child or indoctrinate his own offspring with these ideas, we should be okay with it. — DiegoT

There's a glaring fault there. Would you trust this demon worshipper with the care of children with Down's syndrome? "No" should be your answer. So, should we trust Trump with the presidency?

Of course, within reason, and so as not to override other priorities higher up the list. Which obviously means that I'm not necessarily in favour of spending shit loads on a massive wall. — S

Britain doesn't need a wall.

Britain doesn't need a wall. — frank

Very funny. But seriously though, have you seen the state of disrepair that Hadrian's Wall has been left in? It's a disgrace, I tell you. Let's make Britain great again.

:lol:

So let´s say Trump is a racist, and think Mexicans are a race. — DiegoT

How about let's not cast baseless smears just because we don't like secure borders?

Britain doesn't need a wall. — frank

Mexico has one, and no one is calling them racist for constructing it.

How about let's not cast baseless smears just because we don't like secure borders? — Inis

It's not baseless, but it's relatively unimportant whether or not Tump is a racist in his heart. What's important is that his rhetoric appeals to racists, and it repels those of us who are not:

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

How about not being a troll. Do you need to see Trump lynching someone? I'll grant you this: Trump has made a career of lying, cheating, abusing, mocking, & etc. just about everything any decent - even flawed - man might uphold. What did he say, or his man say, about separation of families? That they thought no one would care. Think about that, chew on it awhile. Here's the news: they should have cared! Lacking that, they - he, his - simply do not have what must of us would think of as souls, or character or integrity. They're just human virus, a disease afflicting civil society. Law is our proper remedy, but sometimes it's slow, maybe too slow. A problem with law for a more enlightened congress to deal with.

There's a glaring fault there. Would you trust this demon worshipper with the care of children with Down's syndrome? "No" should be your answer. So, should we trust Trump with the presidency?[/q

Before I answer, I neet to know what he wants to do with Down children — S

who would you rather have as the U.S. president right now? You can not say any Democrat politician, that´s too easy. Somebody not involved in politics.

who would you rather have as the U.S. president right now? You can not say any Democrat politician, that´s too easy. Somebody not involved in poli — DiegoT

Why not? Do you think I have the vision to summon up another Barack Obama or Jimmy Carter or even Bill Clinton? I happen to think Elizabeth Warren would be a great president, but I suspect most men in America are not man enough, do not have the balls, are too weak in the masculinity department, are to insecure in their self-images, to vote for her.

But of course there are all these wonderful man Republicans. Can you say Ted Cruz? Or Maybe Lindsey Graham? All these brave and courageous Republicans, so many one simply cannot remember their names. But how will you know them? By the s*** on their faces from all of that kissing and licking they've been doing. I cannot think of even a single Republican that I can feel right in thinking of as an American. Can you? Can you name one?

In fact, name a decent Republican President. I happen to think Eisenhower was a good American and a much better and smarter president than most will credit. Ford was a decent man. The rest? And don't mention Lincoln. His Republican party is now the Democrat party. Real Republicans now find home in the Democrat party. What is a Republican today? A disgusting, self-interested, anti-American, unethical and dishonest, lying, cheating scumbag, in the worst sense. But I can be corrected. Name for me any decent Republican, one whose face is not brown from his disgusting practices.

How about let's not cast baseless smears just because we don't like secure borders? — Inis

Let's not cast baseless smears? But aren't you defending Trump? :chin:

Or is it okay when he does it?

Before I answer, I need to know what he wants to do with Down children. — DiegoT

I don't know, you'd have to ask him. But bear in mind that you already know that he's the kind of person who thinks that it's acceptable to sacrifice Down children to Azazel, demon of the desert and all that's hot, in order to prevent climate change.

Even if he told you that he wouldn't sacrifice them, you'd believe him? That you'd even consider it speaks volumes.

Admit it. This was a silly rhetorical point that you didn't think through, and it has backfired. You don't have to bite the bullet, you know?

Who would you rather have as the U.S. president right now? You can not say any Democrat politician, that´s too easy. Somebody not involved in politics. — DiegoT

My cat. She isn't very intelligent, she can't speak any English, she sleeps through much of the day, and she shits in a litter tray, but she would still make a better president than Donald Trump.

I cannot think of even a single Republican that I can feel right in thinking of as an American. Can you? Can you name one? — tim wood

Well, there's John McA...ah, never mind.

Well, I reckon DT is doing a fantastic job. (Of losing the next election and causing irrevocable damage to the Republican party's image.) I wish everybody would just let him get on with it.

Jeff Flake? Mitt Romney?

I cannot think of even a single Republican that I can feel right in thinking of as an American. — tim wood

Condolezza Rice, Colin Powell, John Kasich, Will Hurd, Rex Tillerson, General Mttis, John Kelly -
more probably if I though more-

But the more important question to me is why aren't these - what I think are good men and women leading the charge against this disgrace we have as president of the US - We need strong and respected moral voices from the Republican party - but so far have very little.

Wait. People from certain countries don't want/believe/share democratic values, respect law, human rights and in top of that don't have abstract thinking skills? Which countries are those? — Benkei

You are being naughty...I did not say "countries", but individual people who can move around. It´s your ideological defense filters talking, because deep in your brain you know what I mean and you agree. The filters will prevent this realization (for now).

My cat. She isn't very intelligent, she can't speak any English, she sleeps through much of the day, and she shits in a litter tray, but she would still make a better president than Donald Trump. — S

Your line of reasoning led you to that conclusion, so I don´t blame you

Well, there's John McA...ah, never mind. — Arkady

Right. He of the Sarah Pailin VP choice. He was not-so-great, only with effort better than Trump. Of course he did have some principles....

Condolezza Rice, Colin Powell, John Kasich, Will Hurd, Rex Tillerson, General Mattis, John Kelly -
more probably if I though more- — Rank Amateur

I yield. I'm not a fan of these, mainly because of the company they kept. Mattis and Powell I know of no bad news about. The rest - but where are they while Trump does his damage both to their country and their party?

Yea, Palin sucks, but nobody's perfect. It doesn't mean that he was so debased, crass, and opportunistic that one ought not to consider him a "real American," or anything. For one thing, no matter Trump's efforts to smear him, McCain was a genuine war hero.

I yield. I'm not a fan of these, mainly because of the company they kept. Mattis and Powell I know of no bad news about. The rest - but where are they while Trump does his damage both to their country and their party? — tim wood

agree -

Yes, I agree. There are Youtube videos of him being the man we all like to think of him as being. But in the politics, I think of him as being a reasonably smart and almost honorable fool. He should have just become a Democrat; he'd have found all the Republican principles there anyone could want - and been an instructive voice to the more left-leaning among us.

Mattis and Powell I know of no bad news about. — tim wood

Well, re: Powell, there was the whole "making a case for Iraqi WMDs in front of the UN" thing.