The literature seems consistent that mothers nearly always grieve termination of their pregnancy. — tim wood
Then I'd not have an opinion on abortion. — Terrapin Station
Is it relevant to the abortion argument? — TheMadFool
Human dignity inheres in sentience, emotion, affection, physical health, appetite and rationality.
It is in recognition of this dignity that a person had moral standing.
A cluster of cells, not having any of the characteristics of human dignity, has no moral standing.
As that cluster of cells develops, it grows in its ability to express sentience, emotion, affection, physical health, appetite and rationality. It grows in its entitlement to be treated with dignity.
The woman involved in a pregnancy is fully entitled to be treated with dignity.
Pregnancies that threaten the dignity of the pregnant woman may be terminated up until such time as the dignity of the developing human becomes significant. That is, when the developing human shows significant sentience, emotion, affection, physical health, appetite and rationality.
Thereafter pregnancies may be terminated if on balance the continuation of the pregnancy will result in a reduction human dignity.
Generally, this will be around the end of the second trimester of the pregnancy. — Banno
If there are no intervening contrary events, birth proceeds naturally from conception. — ernestm
Let's do some deconstruction.
Removing a cyst is not killing. A cyst is not a living thing, not a plant, animal or mushroom, and hence cannot be killed.
But more obvious is who is not included in the argument. The account hardly mentions the pregnant woman, and then only to say we will talk about her later. That alone ought give us pause, and wonder as to the attitude towards women that stands behind this argument.
You would argue that there is no dignity that attaches to humans (or anything, really) because of what it is? — tim wood
No, I would not argue that.
Human dignity inheres in sentience, emotion, affection, physical health, appetite and rationality.
That's what it is.
It may also be a bunch of human cells; but that is insufficient to dignify it. So if you think dignity derives from the material constituents of an individual, I would disagree. — Banno
Is there anything in the womb that is not a living thing? — tim wood
If you prefer, the cyst is not an organism.A cyst is not a living thing, not a plant, animal or mushroom, and hence cannot be killed.
The woman is a problem in itself. Inasmuch as the question is framed in terms of abortion - at least informally - the woman is incidental. As a matter of human rights in particular women's rights, then the fetus is incidental. Roe v. Wade argues that the fetus has plenty of rights pending, pending live birth. Hmm. By this rule of requiring live birth to perfect those, then what actual right does a fetus have? It would appear none. I have not seen this argument anywhere; I wonder if it's sound - it seems sound! — tim wood
Nussbaum's position provides a closely argued, detailed and widely applicable analysis of dignity.Dignity does seem to me a word that is not as simple to understand as it at first appears. — tim wood
Some value the life of a foetus, others don't. On what grounds can one group say that the other group is wrong? — Michael
And I will go further and say that I am convinced that those who insist in denying choice to that woman in deference to the cyst are acting immorally. That is, that what they are doing is wrong. — Banno
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