Sure - but it is the case for those who set the culture of society. This isn't YET the case with average lower or middle class folk (and depends who you're referring to, let's not forget that approximately 70% of black children are born out of wedlock for example). But culture seeps through from those who set it to everyone else in time. The lower or middle class folk will no longer be as you know them if things continue.Again the key qualification here is it's not cool amongst 'average' lower or middle class folk. — Erik
This depends on the culture of your society. Neither should teen boys objectify women - this is a failure of current society. Kids don't have role models. They're not educated about sex. They're not provided with the adequate moral examples, and the adequate literature. They don't look for example at the moral example set by John Wooden (the basketball coach) in regards to sexual morality - he, by his own words, only kissed one girl in his life. So it's not always that young men were so keenly interested in sex. It's only a hypersexualised culture, which puts sex on a pedestal, and tells men they have no worth if they don't engage in it that creates such situations.And I would also distinguish between the words and behavior of a teenage boy and an older man, the latter of whom should have moved beyond the objectification of women and caving in to peer pressure by the time he's in his sixties (or fifties, or forties, or even thirties). Not sure about you, but I think about what I did in my late teens and early twenties and cringe. Who the hell was that stupid kid? It was me, sadly. So 'boys will be boys' seems to hold to a certain extent, independent of the social context. But I could be wrong about this and would like to hear your arguments to the contrary. — Erik
Up that to 40-50% by most surveys for today's world.10 percent of married people — Bitter Crank
10 percent of married people — Bitter Crank
Up that to 40-50% by most surveys for today's world. — Agustino
And the big problem is that they WISH they had it - that's a problem. They desire something immoral - that's a sign of cultural degradation, that we need to do something about. — Agustino
No the fact that they wish this alone isn't the problem. The fact they would make this public as their wish that they are unashamed by - that is the problem. If they went to the priest and said I have this desire to have sex with another woman apart from my wife - that would be a good way to deal with it. If they actually did it, or worse they did it and/or proclaimed publicly they did/wanted to without being ashamed, but rather proudly proclaiming it - that is bad. Why? Because it means they have lost the moral standard from their vision. They no longer aspire to it, and have instead fallen into spiritual sloth.That people wish they could have sex with a desired but unavailable partner is not THE problem. — Bitter Crank
I hold with both. It's one thing to say "oh I have this desire to have sex with a woman other than my wife, but I wish I didn't have such a desire", and a completely different thing to say "I just wish I could have sex with a woman other than my wife". The former may be natural - the latter is evil.I hold with actions — Bitter Crank
And really I don't understand why these corrupt folks in the media are so outraged about what Trump said - many in Hollywood and the media are equally promiscuous, and think equally bad about women - in fact they treat women no differently than Trump. So why are they making a big fuss? Only because Trump speaks it, while they only think it and never say it? This is outrageous. — Agustino
Crazy making only if you beat yourself up for example for wanting to have sex with another woman while married. There's nothing wrong with wanting it in itself - it's about acting that is wrong. If you do things in order to have it - that's wrong. If you tell folk that you wish you had it - that's also wrong (notice how the telling is an ACTION). But merely having that desire - sure - entertain it - why not? We shouldn't repress any desires. This doesn't mean we give into them - but that we entertain them. I don't think anyone reasonable could be against that. It's entirely conceivable that a desire arise in you over which you have no control - you have no control whether the desire to cheat on your wife is present. You just have control over what you do with it ... do you talk about it? Do you go ahead and cheat? etc. One can want many things - it doesn't mean one has to be the slave of that desire and give in to it...I found that model to be, basically, crazy-making. — Bitter Crank
There is no contradiction my friend. We don't live in an ideal world. We have to play the cards we're given. Yes, ideally the President should set the highest moral standards. Practically, in this specific case, it's less important what Trump's personal behaviour is, and more important what policies and attitudes he sets forth - why? Because neither alternative is any better in terms of personal behaviour. — Agustino
I can largely agree with that. But social conservatives should use this as an opportunity to attack the liberal-progressive media for the hypocrisy they are engaged in. They aren't upset about this happening in our culture - only that someone running for President displays it. This is wrong. — Agustino
The latest exposé of Trump's vulgarity is a good thing because it will offend even more people even more deeply. Fine by me. The offended should vote for somebody else--like Hilary or Jill.
Sexually crude as Donald Trump might be, sexual crudeness shouldn't automatically or effectively disqualify him from being an effective president. — Bitter Crank
But then again, when you factor in that 95% of TV advertisement spending leading up to the election is by Clinton, you've got to suspect 95% bias. — tom
I am genuinely concerned that someone whose Presidential campaign is 20% funded by Saudi Arabia, whose personal charity received huge donations from Saudi, and who claims Islam has nothing to do with terrorism, becomes president. — tom
“Wealthy Muslims Helped Donald Trump Build His Empire,” Including Via Deals With Saudis And Qataris. A December 7 Quartz article detailed “some of the more prominent deals and partnerships with Muslim individuals, governments, and companies that have buoyed the Trump brand over the years.” These business ventures involve Qatar Airways, which has had a “‘corporate campus’ in the Trump Tower … since at least 2008;” two Saudi princes who live in Trump Tower; Saudi Prince Alwaleed, who took “majority control of New York’s Plaza hotel, [which gave] Trump ‘more breathing room with bank creditors’” and purchased Trump’s $18 million yacht; the Trump International Golf Club in Dubai; and Trump Home partnerships in “Kuwait, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar.” Quartz later reported that regional retailer Lifestyle stopped selling Trump Home products in its stores in Kuwait, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and other countries following Trump’s anti-Muslim comments. — Quartz
“Donald Trump Sought Investment Partnerships With Muammar al-Qaddafi And The Libyan Regime.” A BuzzFeed investigation posted on June 7 found that “Donald Trump sought investment partnerships with Muammar al-Qaddafi and the Libyan regime,” revealing that Trump “rented his Westchester estate to the dictator, tried to set up a face-to-face meeting, and took the Libyan ambassador golfing.” BuzzFeed reported that Trump “saw possibilities in a partnership with the Libyan Investment Authority, which invests profits from Libya’s lucrative oil industry” and that he ultimately sought “to gain access to Qaddafi, who was in a position to release billions in investment capital.” — BuzzFeed
Yeah for a very simple reason that he says he will appoint conservative Judges, he will put tougher restrictions on abortion, he will end illegal immigration, etc. ... Social conservatives have a degree of control over Trump that they don't over Clinton. I don't really care if Trump himself will be immoral so long as he will be a useful tool for the social conservative agenda. It's a calculated sacrifice - lose a pawn, in order to win the game. — Agustino
As far as I can tell he is not necessarily describing sexual assault. "They let you do it" seems to be the crucial bit that differentiates his attitude from one of sexual assault to one of consent. I mean, if Trump was going around randomly grabbing vaginas completely unsolicited then I reckon someone would have noticed by now.""Trump: Yeah, that’s her, with the gold. I’ve got to use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her. You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. I just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.
Unidentified voice: Whatever you want.
Trump: Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything." — Trump
I gather that you really dislike trump and all, — VagabondSpectre
It's much more accurate to say that he got airtime for two reasons: 1, because he gets good ratings (they made money off of him. Period. It's their own damn greedy fault), and 2, because ridiculing Donald Trump fits well with the established agenda of the dems (the pubs get in on it too though it seems). — VagabondSpectre
This current election is unprecedented because a part of the American pubic :D has become so blasé and lackadaisical toward the election that the only rhetoric and content capable of stirring them must be in some ways "extreme". — VagabondSpectre
Trump "asking" Russia to hack the DNC for instance... Alleging that the two are any way in-cahoots is certifiably insane, and yet as an extreme point of rhetoric I see it falling out of everyone's mouth with extremely persuasive prejudice. Maybe the Kremlin do want trump to win, but why? Could it perhaps be that Russia desires a "regime change" in America so that it could possibly have it's economic sanctions eliminated? — VagabondSpectre
That said, if and when Russia does release more evidence of some new Hillary scandal, will you literally blame it on trump because he once said "I hope Russia releases what they hacked"? After-all, Hillary is the victim in all this and trump is a misogynist... — VagabondSpectre
Look at mainstream women's fashions over the past few decades and see how closely they tend to emulate first ladies. The atmosphere of society reflects the attitudes of the leadership. Kennedy's optimism rubbed off on the 1960's. Nixons dark pessimism rubbed off on the 1970's. The arrogance and greed of the 1980's can be traced to Reagan. Even today's progressive liberalism can be traced to the Obamas. — swstephe
Hillary is just as big or bigger of a flopper though, and according to the recently leaked "wall street speeches" she has both a real and a private position because "if everybody's watching, you know, all of the back room discussions and the deals, you know, then people get a little nervous, to say the least. So, you need both a public and a private position.". — VagabondSpectre
As far as I can tell he is not necessarily describing sexual assault. "They let you do it" seems to be the crucial bit that differentiates his attitude from one of sexual assault to one of consent. — VagabondSpectre
Do you disagree with the psychological fact that people emulate those who are perceived as leaders? Really this is a silly game - what do you expect me to do? Quote to you research studies about this finding? If you just open your eyes and look around you, you will see that people do seek to emulate those who are perceived to be leaders - there would be no need for a study — Agustino
Now let's see if this changes anything - of course it doesn't - because what's happening with you is that you don't want to believe it in the first place, as it is ruinous to your political beliefs. — Agustino
This ignores that Trump isn't alone in this race. He needs an entire support network to do anything as President - a support network he must satisfy. That support network includes a lot of social conservatives, including the VP Mike Pence. He cannot betray the social conservative agenda without screwing himself up. Trump may be a narcissist liar, but he's not stupid. — Agustino
And the idea that it had no effect on what people thought of adultery is equally laughable. It certainly influenced what some folks thought about it, and it would be quite extreme to deny that. Do you not see so many 10-12 year olds do exactly what they see Kim Kardashian and other celebrities do? The same pattern of miming behaviour that is perceived as cool, either because it comes from a well-known leader, or otherwise, exists in adults.The idea that President Clinton's behavior somehow made "the masses" more accepting than they previously were of adultery is laughable. — Moliere
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.