Reality as appearance.
  • Nobody
    46
    We assume that there is appearances in one hand and in the other hand there is objective medium sourcing these appearances..but what are this so called objective medium but another appearance!.
    Notice that what you got in reality is this phenomenal field of sensory perception. You are claiming that there's is stuff behined the scenes like the brain or the atoms ..but what are those but more of the same phenomenal field . Consciousness is not happening inside the brain..the brain is occurring within Consciousness. Phenomenon is not made out of atoms..atoms are phenomenon themselves. You have nothing but subjective appearances..that's the only thing that there is. There is no ultimate ground ..every ground must be grounded in something else forever =endless regress of appearances. This is why "dreams" are the perfect analogy for reality. Appearances with no ground.

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  • Judaka
    1.7k
    I would agree fundamentally speaking but exchange this idea of appearances with interpretations. If reality is a dream then it is not a dream as humans experience it but something far more consistent and rule-based. Whether we are living in something like the Matrix or not, pragmatism reigns supreme as the answer because the implications are all the same to the pragmatist and whether we want a good life or a good dream, we must play by the rules.

    I think there are certain implications for your understanding which are wise to keep in mind but many interpretations of your idea lead to nothing but pain and disaster. So, is there something you think people should do differently or should think differently as a result of coming to the same understanding you have?
    Judaka Options
  • Nobody
    46
    Yes ofc ..the first application..stop taking life so seriously. Secondly..everything you have ever learned from society is wrong. Third..enjoy life to the fullest and let go..thats what happens when you become lucied in the dream.
    Nobody Options
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    We assume that there is appearances in one hand and in the other hand there is objective medium sourcing these appearances..but what are this so called objective medium but another appearance!. — Nobody

    "But what is this so-called objective medium . . . from the reference frame of being a person observing it" do you mean? Because from a different reference frame, for example, the reference frame of the objective medium, how would it be an appearance in the same sense of "appearance"?
    Terrapin Station Options
  • Nobody
    46
    There is only one reference frame. The frame of the observer. The" frame of the objective medium " is an appearance within the frame of the observer. It can't be any other way. Objectivity is a leap of faith.
    Please notice right now in your direct experience that the only thing you can ever encounter is this phenomenon appearances..atoms and molecules are also appearances..your materialistic objective world view is nothing but appearance.
    Nobody Options
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    There is only one reference frame. The frame of the observer. — Nobody

    What do you count as an empirical support of this?
    Terrapin Station Options
  • Nobody
    46
    Direct experience or first person subjective. Which is the only thing there is.
    Nobody Options
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    Direct experience or first person subjective. Which is the only thing there is. — Nobody

    There is direct experience of a lot of different things, including objective things. So that would suggest the opposite of your conclusion.
    Terrapin Station Options
  • Nobody
    46
    No . You never "see" any objective thing. If you perceive it then it is subjective. It is by defention. Examle: if you hold an orange ..the colour..the smell..the touching is your perception which is your direct experience of a perceived object. The actual object is not any of these perceptions..it is the stuff behind the scenes which is sourcing these appearances . But ofcourse there is no such thing as there is not a shred of evidence for an objective world. All you can ever encounter is your subjective experience and nothing else. Even any ideas about something existing behind your subjective experience is also occurring within your subjective experience. Please notice that right now.
    Nobody Options
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    ↪Nobody


    There is direct experience of a television set, say. Are you not familiar with this?
    Terrapin Station Options
  • Nobody
    46
    Look..take three persons ..aske them :do you see the sun over there ?
    The first one will say:yes I do.
    The second one:yes I do.
    The third: yes I do.
    Scientists call that an objective fact ..the sun exist .
    But notice that (the three persons +the sun over there+the scientist's telling you of the objective truth ) is all occurring within your subjective experience!!
    It can't be any other way any it will never be.
    Nobody Options
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    ↪Nobody


    They're not saying something about people agreeing with "objective fact"

    Again, are you saying you're unfamiliar with direct experience of things like TVs?
    Terrapin Station Options
  • Nobody
    46
    No I'm actually not familiar with that.
    Nobody Options
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    ↪Nobody


    Interesting, so I'd have to wonder if maybe something unusual is going on with you medically.
    Terrapin Station Options
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    In your world, there's only direct experience of perceptions qua perceptions?
    Terrapin Station Options
  • Nobody
    46
    What do you mean by direct experience of tv? I guess you don't mean me watching the tv?!
    Nobody Options
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    There's just a TV. With no experiential phenomenon of it being a perception of a TV.
    Terrapin Station Options
  • Mww
    5.3k
    ↪Nobody


    Fundamentally correct; the human system is internally representative.
    Fundamentally incomplete: there must be something external to be represented.
    Mww Options
  • Nobody
    46
    Impossible. How can you say that if you didn't experience it.
    Nobody Options
  • Nobody
    46
    ↪Mww
    no..why would you assume that?. In your dreams ..what are the external objective stuff that's being represented?!. Literally nothing..but still thers appearances.
    Nobody Options
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    ↪Nobody


    Maybe it's being self-centered. You see everything as you somehow? In my world, there's often just a TV or whatever. It's not a phenomenon of me perceiving a TV. Sometimes I have a phenomenon of me perceiving a TV, especially if something unusual is going on, like it gets blurry, but normally, no.
    Terrapin Station Options
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    To think that there always has to be me perceiving other things in some relation to them, I have to posit the other things, which defeats the argument you're attempting. (Or otherwise experience has to be different than it is in my world, so that it's always experience of perception qua perception or something like that . . . which would make me wonder if something isn't going on medically)
    Terrapin Station Options
  • Nobody
    46
    Again .give me (or give yourself) a shred of evidence that the "tv" is there when you are not experiencing it directly other than mere faith.
    Nobody Options
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    ↪Nobody


    In my world, the experience is not normally of me watching a TV. There's just the TV.
    Terrapin Station Options
  • Nobody
    46
    ↪Terrapin Station
    you are stuck in the the materialistic world view
    Nobody Options
  • Nobody
    46
    You can't give me any evidence I know.
    Nobody Options
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    ↪Nobody

    You either have a medical problem or you're stuck in some juvenile theorizing.
    Terrapin Station Options
  • Nobody
    46
    No. I'm completely sane and mature and I know what I'm talking about. Please if you wanna keep with me in this conversation give me rational arguments to your claims rather than offending me personally when I defeat you. Thanks.
    Nobody Options
  • MwwAccepted Answer
    5.3k
    ↪Nobody


    In dreams, that which appears is the contents of consciousness.

    In conscious awareness, that which appears are intuitions representing sensory impressions.
    Mww Options
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    Presumably it seems I'm something your mind is creating? That's the only experience of me?
    Terrapin Station Options
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    In dreams, that which appears is the contents of consciousness.

    In conscious awareness, that which appears are intuitions representing sensory impressions     — Mww

    Isn't that theoretical?
    Terrapin Station Options
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