No, actually I'm quite annoyed by sexually immoral people from the past, and I tend to go so far as even lower the attention I pay to their thinking. Why do you think I don't like reading Heidegger? But what annoys me isn't only so much their behaviour - it's rather that they uphold that such behaviour is acceptable and should be permissible.What does it have to do with social conservatism winning the day? It has to do with morality, and your willingness to disregard your own moral principles for the sake of social conservatism winning the day. Your rhetoric on virtue ethics and the importance of sexual morality is undermined by your consequentialism. — Sapientia
No, actually I'm quite annoyed by sexually immoral people from the past, and I tend to go so far as even lower the attention I pay to their thinking. Why do you think I don't like reading Heidegger? But what annoys me isn't only so much their behaviour - it's rather that they uphold that such behaviour is acceptable and should be permissible. — Agustino
Not necessarily Sapientia. Again, I wouldn't encourage to vote for him if on the other side we didn't have a very dangerous progressive candidate - and if she wins, the culture of the US will be altered for quite a long time, in a direction that's not going to be good at all. So it's a necessary sacrifice, to prevent a greater evil.I know full well that you find that sort of behaviour objectionable. But your annoyance doesn't mean as much when it's undermined by your actions. The severity of which you would have us judge it ought to be contrasted with your willingness to vote for people known to have behaved in that way.
There are a number of other acts which, if committed by a candidate running for office, would mean that they'd lose my vote. So, given that for you, this isn't one of them, then either this particular sort of behaviour isn't as bad as all of those sorts of behaviour which would lose my vote - meaning that it's not as severe as you make it out to be - or your moral standards are much lower than mine. — Sapientia
Not necessarily Sapientia. Again, I wouldn't encourage to vote for him if on the other side we didn't have a very dangerous progressive candidate - and if she wins, the culture of the US will be altered for quite a long time, in a direction that's not going to be good at all. So it's a necessary sacrifice, to prevent a greater evil. — Agustino
First because this is about sexual morality - Bill Clinton. That in itself, getting such a man in the White House again, that is a bigger crime than anything Trump has ever done with regards to sexuality. Bill Clinton has raped multiple women - as Trump said, he even had to pay one in a lawsuite.What effect do you believe that Hilary Clinton becoming president will bring about which is worse than someone such as Donald Trump becoming president, given what we know about the latter with regards to sexual morality, and given your stance on the importance of sexual morality? — Sapientia
First because this is about sexual morality - Bill Clinton. That in itself, getting such a man in the White House again, that is a bigger crime than anything Trump has ever done with regards to sexuality. Bill Clinton has raped multiple women - as Trump said, he even had to pay one in a lawsuite.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/jan/13/clinton.usa1 — Agustino
Secondly - Clinton just is progressivism + war against Russia. Nothing could be worse. Supreme Court will be finished. We'll have even more identity politics. It will be a disaster. — Agustino
Oh common give me a break... if he hadn't actually raped her, why did he pay her, what in today's money, would equal to more than 1 million dollars? Do you just throw away 1 million for nothing?Who did Trump pay in order to settle a rape accusation? (and by the way, most of the accusations against him are recent). Bill Clinton may not be running, but he's certainly going to the White House if Hillary wins.That is slander, as per the legal definition, as well as speculation. He has not been convicted of rape. Under the settlement, Clinton didn't admit any wrongdoing or apologize and simply agreed to make a cash settlement to Mrs. Jones. Although I do agree that that, as well as the other allegations, and the Lewinsky scandal, are cause for concern. But then, so are similar allegations against Trump, including his alleged rape of a 13 year-old girl - of which there is a lawsuit and upcoming hearing. So, you are guilty of double standards. And Bill Clinton isn't even running for president, unlike Trump. — Sapientia
Yes, it is sexual morality, amongst many other things. Trump himself probably is sexually immoral, but he will not promote this same attitude for everyone else - through for example the appointment of conservative justices to the Supreme Court. Trump will not promote identity politics. Trump will take a tough stance on ISIS. Trump will take a tough stance on illegal immigration. Trump will take a tough stance on abortion. And so forth. These things are very important. If we vote for Crooked, then they're gone - for everyone else. If we vote for Trump, they may be gone for him personally, but certainly not for the rest of us.And, if it is something other than sexual morality, can you please clarify and confirm it's importance in comparison to sexual morality? — Sapientia
Bill Clinton. That in itself, getting such a man in the White House again, that is a bigger crime than anything Trump has ever done with regards to sexuality. — Agustino
if she wins, the culture of the US will be altered for quite a long time, in a direction that's not going to be good at all. — Agustino
Oh common give me a break... if he hadn't actually raped her, why did he pay her, what in today's money, would equal to more than 1 million dollars? Do you just throw away 1 million for nothing? Who did Trump pay in order to settle a rape accusation? (and by the way, most of the accusations against him are recent). Bill Clinton may not be running, but he's certainly going to the White House if Hillary wins. — Agustino
Yes, it is sexual morality, amongst many other things. Trump himself probably is sexually immoral, but he will not promote this same attitude for everyone else - — Agustino
And letting ISIS thrive. And continuing illegal immigration. And continuing the focus on identity politics. And continuing political correctness. And so forth. Tragic.Perhaps a Clinton + Clinton administration will change things, and whether this is good or not depends on who you are. A more liberal court, and one that stays liberal for a while, is the worst outcome that Clinton could produce. — Bitter Crank
Simple: create a culture which is more permissible towards sexual immorality - that is harmful for all of us, not just for me.What is it that a more liberal court could do that would affect YOU materially? — Bitter Crank
Oh common... what would you have done my dear? If the guy offered you 1 million bucks would you not have agreed to settle, even if he had raped you? You have to think from the perspective of that woman. Probably not very talented, not very smart, not having a bright future ahead. She could never reasonably hope to make that kinda money, and she had already been raped. Nothing she could do - it had already happened. Might as well take that dough. Think about what her family would advise her - they'd probably be like "You crazy?? 850K? Take it, what else are you hoping for!" If she had refused to settle, worst would have happened (for Clinton) was him getting to jail, and a much lesser compensation - plus the risk for her of losing the case, given his political influence.I said it was cause for concern, didn't I? I haven't denied the allegation, but that is all it ever was. It hasn't been proven in a court of law. The fact remains that Bill Clinton has never been convicted of rape. Why did she agree to the settlement? One could speculate on that, too. Perhaps her case wasn't as strong as one might assume. — Sapientia
No he hasn't. He actually said it's wrong and he regrets saying it. He has also said he has never behaved like that. He furthermore pointed out that folks in today's culture talk about things like that all the time - almost shamelessly. Which again is something that the hypocritical media says nothing about.He already has! He dismissed it as locker room talk! — Sapientia
Oh common... what would you have done my dear? If the guy offered you 1 million bucks would you not have agreed to settle, even if he had raped you? You have to think from the perspective of that woman. Probably not very talented, not very smart, not having a bright future ahead. She could never reasonably hope to make that kinda money, and she had already been raped. Nothing she could do - it had already happened. Might as well take that dough. Think about what her family would advise her - they'd probably be like "You crazy?? 850K? Take it, what else are you hoping for!" If she had refused to settle, worst would have happened (for Clinton) was him getting to jail, and a much lesser compensation - plus the risk for her of losing the case, given his political influence. — Agustino
No he hasn't. He actually said it's wrong and he regrets saying it. He has also said he has never behaved like that. He furthermore pointed out that folks in today's culture talk about things like that all the time - almost shamelessly. Which again is something that the hypocritical media says nothing about. — Agustino
Yes, I will then consider him the equal of Bill Clinton. I'd still choose him over Bill if I had to pick between who is going to the White House, because at least Trump is sorrounded by a social conservative network, and will do more good for the country than Bill et al.And, if Trump settles in the lawsuit I referenced, or any other such lawsuit, then you will apply the same standard of judgement, yes? Or will you just find another way around it? — Sapientia
I'm not seeing it. Bill hasn't said he regrets raping. Furthermore, there is quite a lot more evidence with regards to Bill than with regards to Trump on the subject of rape.Pah! There's that double standard again. Oh common... — Sapientia
I'm not seeing it. — Agustino
Bill hasn't said he regrets raping. — Agustino
>:O But the fact that he has paid 850K to settle a rape accusation makes him 98% guilty in my mind already. For all practical purposes that is all the proof that I require. That's why I said I'd put Trump on the same footing if he had settled a rape case for such money. (the laughing face is regarding your "oh common" imitation btw :P )The double standard is that you take an unproven allegation as truth when it comes to Bill, but with Trump, when it comes straight from the horses mouth, you lap up his denials and apologetics. He said that he has never behaved like that? Oh common... — Sapientia
This is very vague. What do you really mean?wildly self-deceived about certain topics like morality and politics. — Heister Eggcart
This is very vague. What do you really mean? — Agustino
But the fact that he has paid 850K to settle a rape accusation makes him 98% guilty in my mind already. For all practical purposes that is all the proof that I require. — Agustino
So you're telling me that if you were Bill Clinton, you'd settle a rape accusation for 850K USD, knowing very well that the woman is just playing you and you have never done anything wrong, nor raped her?Like this. You sound like an armchair judge who's never been outside to see the light of day. Perhaps you just don't understand how rape is perceived and understood in the US, I don't know. — Heister Eggcart
And if you pay them money, the stigma will disappear?Same reason Trump settled all of his cases. It's all about image. Even for a "normal" person such as myself, were someone to accuse me of something I never did, I'd go to great lengths to make sure he/she would stop hollering, because even if I know I'm innocent, along with the court, there will forever be stigma there from the onset of the accusation. — Heister Eggcart
Exactly - so do you give in and give them the money? Do you give in, essentially to a terrorist's demands? If you do, then you're only adding fuel to the fire - you're encouraging this sort of activity. Other whores will look and will see - "oh look, she got one million bucks! Let me go to Bill and bump my ass on him a little, maybe I get it too!"However, and in most cases concerning powerful people, there has arisen legion upon legion of gold digging whores in this country that know that fact, and will gamble on putting someone in the middle where they can't get out, knowing that they're innocent. They just want the money. That's the bottom line. — Heister Eggcart
Again John, clarify for me, what possible motivation could there be for paying someone close to 1 million bucks for something you hadn't even done? — Agustino
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