This is a very American attitude. Yep, free speach is just for appearances sake in reality. And this of course is one reason for the toxic and agressive discourse. You see, it's all about winning with your argument... Seeking a consensus? Learning from others? Rubbish!I think statements like this are both overstated in importance and is just an example "both sides are the problem" vacuousness. People don't really change their minds about politics through discussion with the other side, this is all for appearances sake in reality. — MindForged
Problem is that any ideology presented today seems 'wishy washy' as the most outrageous lines are taken to be the examples as the core ideas of the ideology. And no hard thing to do with Trump the moron in charge.The liberals have their own vices, which is why I became disaffected with their wishy washy ideology. — MindForged
And who here is defending the idiot in Chief here? This is exactly the point I'm talking about.. Those and innumerable cases like them are the chief causes of the toxicity. — MindForged
And what kind of lunacy would the 'left' be, if the extremely aggressive college students promoting victimhood-culture, safe spaces who see microaggressions and racism everywhere would be considered to be the left?But the right live on another planet and no amount of me pretending this isn't right wing lunacy most of the time is going to change that. — MindForged
Were you the one who said had problems with venn diagrams?Does this venn diagram make sense? — wax
As usual, this is just the typical right wing BS about "PC" stopping "problems from being solved" and such. What always always always turns out to be the actual motivation, the actual belief, is that the person complaining PC - never defined by them, notice - is they want to say something outlandish about another group or groups but don't want their words to be labelled as bigotry — MindForged
Basically Ok, but you are implying that a) the group of some people that might behave (?) cannot behave like Mussolini. And Mussolini, who once was a leading member of the Italian Socialist Party, who preached of violent revolution, praised Karl Marx and criticized patriotism, couldn't ever have been politically correct (hypothetically, as he is quite dead and lived in a different time). — ssu
(Yet you do notice that my example was about racism. Or the accusation of the university being racist. Not gender inequality or LGBTQ issues.)The bullshit that the right comes out with incites racial hatred and violence (of a serious nature). Global warming is real and serious, denying it to continue making a profit out of oil sales could cost the lives of thousands, the refugees the right would like to deny haven are fleeing serious persecution. It's not at all comparable with making people say "xshe" instead of "she", or whatever such nonsense. — Isaac
This is a very American attitude. Yep, free speach is just for appearances sake in reality. And this of course is one reason for the toxic and agressive discourse. You see, it's all about winning with your argument... Seeking a consensus? Learning from others? Rubbish! — ssu
And who here is defending the idiot in Chief here? This is exactly the point I'm talking about. — ssu
And what kind of lunacy would the 'left' be, if the extremely aggressive college students promoting victimhood-culture, safe spaces who see microaggressions and racism everywhere would be considered to be the left? — ssu
If the topic was (somehow) political correctness, then refuting it by Trump and global warming.. :roll:Do you hear yourself? College kids being idiots (in the best case scenario for your argument) is being compared to Nationwide policies by Trump — MindForged
If the topic was (somehow) political correctness, then refuting it by Trump and global warming.. :roll: — ssu
This might not apply to me, as I don't characterize PCism or SJWism as "stopping problems from being solved," but I simply take issue with people wanting to control others' thought/speech/expession. I have a problem with people wanting to control others in general, which is part of why I have the relatively unusual views about laws (far fewer things would be illegal if I were king), the prison system (I'd have a completely different system in place/different approach to criminal justice in general), etc. that I do, too. — Terrapin Station
Really? You truly think that I have to be talking about America, or unless you don't know what I'm talking about?And given you are complaoning to this stuff about kids on college campuses no platforming people and moaning about them bringing up microaggressions, surely you were talking about America as well. If not, then I don't know what phenomenon you're talking about. — MindForged
I think the characterization of "trying to control others thought/speech/expression" is a false one though. — MindForged
I don't want to try to control your expression, but I feel obliged to point out that asking questions with such fundamental grammatical errors that they are incomprehensible is not conducive to constructive discussion.People aren't just letting others' expression be and not applying various social pressures, etc., are they? — Terrapin Station
Yet your is counterpoint is that this doesn't matter because... Trumps inhumane policies and global warming. Even if global warming is important (and I did try to show that this isn't an issue only the left cares about in the World), in this context It's a strawman argument. It's like having the counterargument for ANY leftist or liberal idea that it doesn't work because... look at Venezuela. Colombia now holds over 1.1 million of the 3,4 million refugees from Venezuela escaping the Latin paradise of 'democratic socialism' (see UN News Venezuelan refugees now number 3.4 million; humanitarian implications massive, UN warns). And because you aren't talking about this very true crisis in Venezuela, but something else, your nonsensical. — ssu
I think the underlying problem is much more the polarization of the political discourse and the lack of even trying to engage the other side. This creates the current toxic environment. — ssu
Ok. Let's forget the silly campus political correctness as it obviously isn't any root cause for anything here (although for political correctness, it is part of the racism debate)In response, I pointed out some of the actual and significant causes of the toxic environment between the right and the left that go beyond kids at universities not being open minded. — MindForged
Nice work. That is a sentence that's easy to respond to.People aren't letting others' expressions stand as written, but are also applying various social pressures, are they not? — Bitter Crank
Is there something wrong with applying social pressure against somebody's expression? — andrewk
I am curious to hear about how you come to that view. Is it derived from some set of moral principles, or is it more just a feeling? If principles, I'd like to hear about what they are and how the derivation proceeds.In my view, yes [there is something wrong with applying social pressure against somebody's expression]. — Terrapin Station
I am curious to hear about how you come to that view. Is it derived from some set of moral principles, or is it more just a feeling? If principles, I'd like to hear about what they are and how the derivation proceeds. — andrewk
1, 2 and 4 are consistent with the conclusion. It sounds like you are a libertarian. Fair enough - it's just a different ethical system.t's related to me (1) being a free speech absolutist, (2) being against controlling others as much as possible, (3) being against mob mentalities, (4) being pro laissez-fairism, and (5) not being in favor of sanctions in response to "hurt feelings." — Terrapin Station
3 and 5 are not relevant though, as disapproval of things like racist or sexist speech is not based on the potential for hurt feelings and, until we see mobs out there actually harming people that speak racist or sexist things, claims of 'mob mentality' are baseless hyperbole. — andrewk
Under that definition, a group of Amish collaborating to raise a barn is an instance of mob mentality. It's what most people call 'cooperation'.many people acting in conjunction with each other to a particular end, and that's what I'm referring to by "mob mentality." — Terrapin Station
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