If it were something Trump and his supporters did not like they too would, and have, threatened to boycott. — Fooloso4
Just curious if there are any examples of this. — Terrapin Station
Ah I just thought of one possibility. The Kathy Griffin thing, although I don't know how we could make that fit the concept of political correctness really. — Terrapin Station
What is the concept of political correctness really? — Fooloso4
Ah I just thought of one possibility. The Kathy Griffin thing, although I don't know how we could make that fit the concept of political correctness really. — Terrapin Station
Perhaps like abandoning for a while the left/right juxtaposition of agendas or the current political cilmate? Now that would be out-of-the-box thinking.Maybe if some people didn't shield the concept from any conceivable faults, as though it is simply out of the question, unthinkable, then we might actually get somewhere. We could benefit from some out-of-the-box thinking here. — S
Perhaps like abandoning for a while the left/right juxtaposition of agendas or the current political cilmate? Now that would be out-of-the-box thinking. — ssu
Basically a better definition for politically correct would be something like "minority friendly" than politically correct. — ssu
And then there ought to be really a universal definition of "politically correct" meaning "language, policies or measures" that emphasize and/or enforce the current and dominating political views or political system in any country. — ssu
"Politeness or violence is the choice we're faced with. I choose politeness. Violence achieves nothing worthwhile."
Rudeness and violence are not the same thing, nor are politeness and violence each other's opposites. There are many people who are polite who are complete sharks. I think that what you are looking for is action that is genuinely good. Genuine goodness is something that I can respect and that I believe I practice. It has nothing to do with being polite and everything to do with righteousness of action. — Ilya B Shambat
So "political correctness" can be misused for a dubious agenda. Big deal. So can lots of things. — S
You miss the point. There is no misuse of political correctness. — Fooloso4
It is a label, a code that says bullshit here. That is precisely its use. — Fooloso4
There are people who want to do what is right, who have an interest in social justice, morality. Sometimes some of them go to extremes. Grouping them all together as politically correct ignores the particulars. — Fooloso4
I have emphasized the importance of the abnormal age we live in. Demographics are changing and the bounds of acceptable behavior is changing too. Calling out the language and behavior of others is something we are going to see more of, not because PC is contagious but because the old boundaries no longer hold. — Fooloso4
The anti-PCers are objecting to the very thing the PC are trying to accommodate, integration. They are not simply resisting the conversation they are resisting the very need to do this. — Fooloso4
Perhaps like abandoning for a while the left/right juxtaposition of agendas or the current political cilmate? Now that would be out-of-the-box thinking. — ssu
HAH! I like your funny sarcasm, but really, to define the issue without the political left/right juxtaposition would be far better. If one would start from a general concept where political environment affects the discourse and molds it up how things are talked about, then we would avoid the current debate of "No, PC means that your polite" - "No it doesn't".That didn't go down too well in France. Macron ended up pissing off just about everyone. — S
Have you ever thought that you could generalize this? That this could be said about a lot of issues and movements today.There are people who want to do what is right, who have an interest in social justice, morality. Sometimes some of them go to extremes. Grouping them all together as politically correct ignores the particulars. — Fooloso4
"No, PC means that you're polite" - "No it doesn't". — ssu
Still smiling about that Macron comment... Yes, let's have out-of-the-box thinking in Europe: so let's vote for a federalist investment banker. He definitely will have "new ideas" as we have already seen. :grin: — ssu
Be extremely cautious with people that market themselves as centrists or anything new. They are absolutely the worst. Everybody will finish hating them. Just remember Tony Blair and his implementation of "Third way". How cool was that for Britannia?Well, he was trying to spin himself as sort of new centrist-style political force, at least. And he does have some elements of both. But yes, too rightwing for my liking. I am not a fan. His "new ideas", like suddenly hiking up a tax which caused widespread protests for weeks on end until he finally made concessions, have not exactly been a screaming success. — S
Meow!No, horses are fluffy and purr! — S
Let's be clear. When Trump attacks others for being PC it is not because he is bothered by their attempt to avoid language or behavior that can be seen as offensive or excluding, marginalizing, or insulting groups of people. — Fooloso4
Be extremely cautious with people that market themselves as centrists or anything new. They are absolutely the worst. Everybody will finish hating them. Just remember Tony Blair and his implementation of "Third way". How cool was that for Britannia?
Far better are those who indeed are centrist, yet openly acknowledge that they are either conservative/right-wing or left-wing/progressive and specifically in what issues. Sincerity is important in a politician. — ssu
Oh okay, then Donald Trump wasn't misusing the term for his own agenda, and therefore Fox News really were being too politically correct. Funny, I thought you were making the opposite point. — S
There is a distinction which has been acknowledged between being politically correct and wanting to do what is right. — S
I am objecting to political correctness for its bad side, or for those who only think that they're doing good, but are actually causing harm, and are actually doing something which should be frowned upon, — S
... simplistic herd-morality-type thinking... — S
...which offers uncritical praise. — S
Calling out language and behaviour should be seen as neutral without any context. Add a context, and we can sensibly judge whether it is right or wrong in that particular case. — S
No, they are objecting to authoritarian hive-mind conformity — S
Trust me, I am better able to represent the objections than you are, because you are trying to represent them from the outside, and your biases are an obstacle for accurate and fair representation. — S
There are people who want to do what is right, who have an interest in social justice, morality. Sometimes some of them go to extremes. Grouping them all together as politically correct ignores the particulars.
— Fooloso4
Have you ever thought that you could generalize this? That this could be said about a lot of issues and movements today. — ssu
Trump was using the term exactly as conservatives intend to use it, to summarily dismiss anything said by the opposition. — Fooloso4
Are you suggesting that the politically correct do not want to do what is right? Do they think that what is correct is wrong? — Fooloso4
So, those who think they are doing good but are actually causing harm should be frowned upon. That sounds very PC. — Fooloso4
We are herd animals. You are not breaking with the herd when you repeat what every other herd animal who fancies himself an individual says. We are social beings. If we are going to live together we need to have some form of agreement as to what is and is not acceptable behavior and speech. — Fooloso4
Of course context matters! Labeling something PC is the opposite of examining context. All you need to be told is that it is PC. Game over.
Long before PC there was censorship. It is not a PC invention. For most of my life it has been conservatives who have pushed for censorship. The underlying dispute is not over censorship but who gets to be the censor and what are they censoring. — Fooloso4
When Trump objects to PC he is not objecting to authoritarian hive-mind conformity. — Fooloso4
Trust you? That sounds authoritarian. Since you are "inside" you think that you are unbiased? — Fooloso4
And that's not how it should be used, right? So he was misusing it. — S
You clearly disapprove of the way that he was using it, yet at the same time, you keep trying to disagree with me about this misuse of which we both disapprove. — S
No, I wasn't suggesting anything. I meant what I said and nothing more. Don't read things in to what I said. — S
It would be nonsense to suggest that it is politically correct to frown on political correctness. — S
You are so eager to contradict me that you're not really thinking things through. — S
It is about independence. I don't have to be a slave to society, I can be my own master. — S
For Christ's sake. I am not Trump, and I am not defending him. I meant the people in this discussion, not an idiot like Trump. — S
I think what I said: that I am better able to represent the objections (being made in this discussion) than you are. Don't make that about Trump this time. — S
If the term is used according to its intended meaning and affect then it is not being misused. — Fooloso4
The term has no meaning independent of its use. This is how the term is being used tactically by some conservatives. I do not approve of the tactic but have no compunction to assure that the term be saved to be used in a specific way. — Fooloso4
What you said is that there is a distinction between being politically correct and wanting to do what is right. The problem is that the distinction leaves the relationship between PC and doing what is right ambiguous. — Fooloso4
The point is that you are doing the very same thing that would be called PC by someone who does not like that you are frowning on what they are doing. They too think they are doing good rather than harm and they do not like your interference, which they see as the real source of harm. — Fooloso4
Once again, it is not about you. You are so eager to protect your image that you're not really thinking things through. I am not talking about you. I am talking about political philosophy. — Fooloso4
There is a tension here between the individual and society that is as old as political philosophy itself. It has not been reconciled. In terms of freedom of thought, you are as derivative and unoriginal as the rest of us, and more so than some. Your independence is an illusion (and even this is not strictly about you either). — Fooloso4
Once again, it is not about you or the people in this discussion. It is about the political power struggle and the tactics being used. — Fooloso4
No, this one is about you and your imagined unbiased view and superior knowledge that leads you to think that you should be trusted rather than questioned or criticized.
This has become all too personal. I am not interested in going down that road. — Fooloso4
That's silly, because then it wouldn't make sense to say, for example, that I'm misusing the word "horse" to refer to cats. — S
But it does make sense to say that. It's silly to assume that an idiosyncratic meaning has priority, rather than the ordinary meaning. — S
They aren't merely using the term, they're abusing the term. And your own comments about it strongly suggested this. That's why you disapprove. The acceptable usage is what you implicitly condone, over and above the way that people like Trump are using it. But you won't admit that. — S
No, I made the relationship clear: it is not a mutually inclusive relationship. The one is independent of the other. How hard is that to understand? — S
As has been pointed out, political correctness relates to the status quo. — S
Defender of The Faith — S
Calling me derivative and unoriginal is an ad hominem — S
... your assertion that my independence is an illusion is a bare assertion which can rightly be dismissed. — S
No, you don't get to decide what it's about. You don't have that authority. — S
.. you're merely picking on an easy target like Trump who isn't even here to defend himself. — S
This has become all too personal. I am not interested in going down that road.
— Fooloso4
Well, why don't we ask DingoJones and @Ilya B Shambat and others who has best represented their objections out of the two of us? — S
it's "conservatives" or "Trump". Lame. — S
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