Does Jesus lie?

OpinionsMatter

We all know this Godly figure speaks about how to pray, but after reading an article called The Fifty Proofs I started to consider what Jesus is really saying to us. The first proof is called Try Praying and explains that Jesus says "what ever you ask for, will be given to you" but when people genuinely pray for someone to be cured of cancer, they probably won't get healed. This verse was taken slightly out of context, but we all know now a days that isn't what matters to us. Point is Jesus doesn't answer prayers like that, does he? But if we take a look at what Jesus says earlier, he also says "do not test the Lord your God". I think the only reason those kinds of prayers aren't answered is because they're more of a test than an actual, sincere prayer. So does Jesus lie? And if he does, does it mean he's not actually a 'perfect' God because of it?

hachit

First may I ask what you mean by a lie

Secondly God dose answer prayer, he says one of three things: yes, no, or not yet.

RegularGuy

Secondly God dose answer prayer, he says one of three things: yes, no, or not yet. — hachit

Good point

OpinionsMatter

↪hachit

By lie, I mean spread false information. If Jesus tells you "Ask, and you will receive. Knock, and the door will open. Seek, and you will find."-(From the Bible) and then you 'ask' but don't 'receive' don't you feel that he's lied to you? He told you that you would receive, and you didn't. So then do we conclude he's lied to us?

hachit

↪OpnionsMatter

Here's is a comment I have on the topic of quoteingredients scripts
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/242823
no God keep his promise.

There is evidence of God not telling people the entire plan if you count that as liying

OpinionsMatter

↪hachit

So because he doesn't do anything instantly or within a week, we should still assume it will happen eventually? A lot of people could die of cancer before he steps up and answers that prayer.

hachit

↪OpnionsMatter

I did say he could say no did I not.

Frank Apisa

Whether he lies or not, Jesus does seem to contradict himself in certain areas.

In Matthew 5:17ff, Jesus declares: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets. I have come, not abolish them, but to fulfill them. Of this much I assure you: UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, NOT THE SMALLEST LETTER OF THE LAW, NOT THE SMALLEST PART OF A LETTER, SHALL BE DONE AWAY WITH UNTIL IT ALL COME TRUE."

But it seems he does do away with lots of "the LAW"...and his followers have done away with much more...and at least the Earth has not passed away.

OpinionsMatter

↪hachit

Yes, but where do we look in the bible for the part where he says "Sometimes I can say no, and that's okay if people die in the process."? When we search for reason we find entropy, God doesn't say that he will say no, actually he repeats himself whenever he says that, yes, he answers all prayer.

OpinionsMatter

↪Frank Apisa

You may have taken this particular verse out of context, don't you think? Some biblical characters are some what sarcastic, and that's okay. It's not a sin to be sarcastic, or to use sarcasm. Therefore if Jesus was a perfect being, he didn't actually sin by being sarcastic in that verse.

Artemis

First of all, it's "Did Jesus Lie?", cause he's no longer alive.

Second of all, it depends whether he knew he was saying something untrue. Maybe he really believed God would answer all prayers, which makes his saying so an untruth but not a lie. Maybe he was speaking metaphorically, or the quote was mistranslated?

OpinionsMatter

↪NKBJ

We are supposing that his words, which are written down on paper for people to read, continue to lie to those you read them. You have made a clear point on that, but he himself knows that what he is saying is or isn't a lie, so we must consider our answers on the 'metaphorical' part from there. And, no, the quote was certainly not mistranslated. That leaves us with few possibilities.

hachit

Sometimes I can say no, and that's okay if people die in the process."?

People are different, however think about it. Why should it matter if I life or die if I'm going to a better place.

I live, ok so I can continue my (on the universe scale) pointless existence.
I die, I go to a place I can be content for an eternity.

As long as you believe and are not on the wrong side, life or death don't matter beond:
A. Improvement
B. Saving others

he answers all prayer.

This will explain it better than me.
https://www.virtualsalt.com/answerprayer.html

OpinionsMatter

↪hachit

Hmmmmmm…..

andrewk

I think the only reason those kinds of prayers aren't answered is because they're more of a test than an actual, sincere prayer. — OpnionsMatter

I urge you to reflect for a moment on what you were saying. You are implying that every one of those many millions of times that a devout Christian has prayed fervently for their critically sick or injured child to recover, and the child died, they were being insincere and only wanted to test God.

Really?

OpinionsMatter

↪andrewk

No, I am not saying that. What I am saying was that there was an author who said that if you gathered a hundred people together and they all prayed for cancer to be cured, the author concluded the cancer would not be cured. I was referring to the author's prayer, which would be testing God. If a genuine Christian prayed and the child died, I can only confer that it was God's plan for that child to live in a better place with him in heaven.

Artemis

but he himself knows that what he is saying is or isn't a lie — OpnionsMatter

But did he know they were untrue statements?

OpinionsMatter

↪NKBJ

Yes, it clearly defines in the bible that he knows what he is saying, although he does always say his words are true.

Artemis

Yes, it clearly defines in the bible that he knows what he is saying — OpnionsMatter

That could be wrong.

although he does always say his words are true. — OpnionsMatter

I've never seen a more perfect example of Begging the Question.

OpinionsMatter

↪NKBJ

Sorry, but I tried to come on here with a neutral attitude, but you seem to have made me take sides. Yes, however, I do agree that Jesus is not a liar, and that he answers in his own way in his own time. I refuse to lie on this forum, so any remarks are true coming from me. (Even though I sometimes argue with myself)

Frank Apisa

You may have taken this particular verse out of context, don't you think? Some biblical characters are some what sarcastic, and that's okay. It's not a sin to be sarcastic, or to use sarcasm. Therefore if Jesus was a perfect being, he didn't actually sin by being sarcastic in that verse. — OpnionsMatter

I did NOT take the verse out of context...it is a famous quote attributed to Jesus and is used in Relitous discussions FREQUENTLY.

If you want to think Jesus was being sarcastic in that comment...fine with me. But the only reason to thik that is if you cannot rectify the quote with what happened.

Lastly, I said nothing about Jesus "sinning."

You asked if he ever lied...and I responded that whether he lied or not...he dis seem to contradict himself at times.

Artemis

I refuse to lie on this forum, so any remarks are true coming from me — OpnionsMatter

Is it possible you're confused about the difference between telling a lie and telling an untruth?

OpinionsMatter

↪Frank Apisa

You have a strong argument, but this topic bores me now. If you wish to prove anything else to me you will have to PM. I always answer and listen to my PM.

OpinionsMatter

↪NKBJ

No, I am not. I said I wouldn't lie, but that doesn't mean I couldn't accidentally say an untruth. If you wish to take this conversation further, PM me.
I am totally willing to debate this topic with anyone else, it's what I love.

Artemis

No, I am not. I said I wouldn't lie, but that doesn't mean I couldn't accidentally say an untruth. — OpnionsMatter

But you literally said "I refuse to lie" and then "any remarks are true coming from me."

matt

Perhaps Jesus was speaking of God granting spiritual wishes, not necessarily earthly desires.

RegularGuy

Perhaps Jesus was speaking of God granting spiritual wishes, not necessarily earthly desires. — matt

That’s an intelligent distinction.

Does Jesus lie?

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