I'm NOT! I'm blaming his conduct, and using his conduct to point the finger where it should really be pointed - the progressives. Trump is just their product. It's the product of the culture they have created...

She wanted a job. She thought his kissing her was "undoubtedly some form of greeting and that I should not take it as anything other than that", despite the fact that it made her "nervous and embarrassed".

I'm blaming his conduct, and using his conduct to point the finger where it should really be pointed - the progressives. Trump is just their product. It's the product of the culture they have created...

For the third time, his behaviour has nothing to do with progressivism. Repeating that ridiculous strawman won't make it true.

Progressivism doesn't condone or promote sexual assault, so your criticism of it on those grounds is misplaced, and your support of Trump despite him allegedly engaging in such behaviour is hypocritical.

So Trump said what he did because of...progressives? Erm, wat? It's not actually Trump's fault, but who, exactly?

For the third time, his behaviour has nothing to do with progressivism. Repeating that ridiculous strawman won't make it true. — Michael

My point is that she's a progressive - she really was proud of this event. She shouldn't have been because she was abused. But she was. That's why she let him do it. She only claims she didn't like it now - much later. If she really disliked the fact that he kissed her without her permission, she should never have met him again. But her actions are telling us the truth. She did meet him again, despite this fact.

"undoubtedly some form of greeting and that I should not take it as anything other than that" — Michael

Oh yes - that's what her parents suggested too - that's what she actually says. How absurd. Is that what you'd tell your daughter? "Oh daddy, Donald J. Trump forcibly kissed me on the lips and I felt very embarrassed, what should I do" - "Oh don't worry honey, it must just be a form of greeting"... really? Is that how you'd advise your child? How can anyone be so naive? Any girl knows that when a man invites her somewhere completely in private where they are all alone it's a possible sign that he's interested in something else. You don't have to be a genius to know this.

So Trump said what he did because of...progressives? Erm, wat? It's not actually Trump's fault, but who, exactly? — Heister Eggcart

It is his fault. But he's merely the product of a system. So to prevent future Trumps we have to change this system which produced him and caused him to be like this. This system based on self-esteem earned at the compromise of other people's sexual integrity.

So to prevent future Trumps we have to change this system which produced him and caused him to be like this. — Agustino

And your solution to do this is to vote for Trump to be President?

My point is that she's a progressive - she really was proud of this event. She shouldn't have been because she was abused. But she was. That's why she let him do it. She only claims she didn't like it now - much later. If she really disliked the fact that he kissed her without her permission, she should never have met him again. But her actions are telling us the truth. She did meet him again, despite this fact. — Agustino

She met him again because she was hoping for a job. What she didn't want was his unsolicited sexual advances.

Any girl knows that when a man invites her somewhere completely in private where they are all alone it's a possible sign that he's interested in something else. You don't have to be a genius to know this. — Agustino

It's also a possible sign that he wants to talk about her coming to work for him, which is what she was hoping for.

Besides, what would her being naive have to do with anything? It is still the case that Trump allegedly sexually assaulted her. You really are just talking nonsense here. Are you just going for shotgun argumentation now? Random red herrings in the hope that you can distract us from noticing how wrong you are?

"It's his fault, but it's only the system so he has no responsibility to prevent it."

Yeah... this is contradictory bullshit, Agustino.

And your solution to do this is to vote for Trump to be President? — Michael

Yes because I want you to see what the end conclusion of your philosophy is. I want those progressives to be destroyed by him - because they deserve it.

Again, she met him again because she was hoping for a job. What she didn't want was his unsolicited sexual advances. — Michael

I haven't heard the answer to my question. So I will ask you again. If a man forcibly kisses you, and you strongly dislike this and feel abused, will you give him your phone number and agree to meet him IN PRIVATE? Yes or no?

It's also a possible sign that he wants to talk about her coming to work for him, which is what she was hoping for. — Michael

>:O in Alice in Wonderland maybe. Look I've lived in your country. People in the UK for example don't think like this. I can tell you very clearly. Because I know, especially from the days I was in University. A girl knows why she is called for if a guy were to say something "Oh let's go to my place to have some drinks" and it's just the two of them. She's not dumb living under a rock. So don't run away from the glaringly obvious truth. She liked it. She shouldn't have liked it - yes that is true - but that's a different discussion.

"It's his fault, but it's only the fault of the system so he has no responsibility to prevent it."

Yeah... this is contradictory bullshit, Agustino. — TheWillowOfDarkness

No it's his fault means he should be judged and trialed for his actions. It's the fault of the system means in order to prevent future Trumps, we need to change our governing philosophy, which has led to Trump.

So to prevent future Trumps we have to change this system which produced him and caused him to be like this. This system based on self-esteem earned at the compromise of other people's sexual integrity.

Ah, yes, so let us then elect a man that has, is, and will continue to abuse this American society that, I might add, has so kindly propelled him to such a place of power as he now finds himself.

In other..."words", Agustino...

?????????????????

Ah, yes, so let us then elect a man that has, is, and will continue to abuse this American society that, I might add, has so kindly propelled him to such a place of power as he now finds himself.

In other..."words", Agustino...

????????????????? — Heister Eggcart

Good - so this system now must be destroyed by him before we can put something else in its place. Then it will all be obvious what is at fault. Trump will cure us from progressivism.

This won't happen, in any way. That you think so is a travesty. You and many others are precisely the same kind of people out in the world that will slip their pants down and gladly bend over for those who promise to do the right thing, but in all reality, will never do so. It's sad that you actually think Trump is an honest man and will do anything good, let alone anything that he's actually said.

I also must admit that I'm confused as to why you even care so much about US politics.

It's amazing how the most vocal moralisers often have the fewest moral principles.

It's amazing how the most vocal moralisers often have the fewest moral principles. — Michael

Have you answered the question? Why are you avoiding it Michael?

It's sad that you actually think Trump is an honest man and will do anything good, let alone anything that he's actually said. — Heister Eggcart

I don't believe he's an honest person, I don't know where you get this from. He's more honest than Hillary that is true - but he's not an honest person. I have told Thorongil in our discussion today exactly this.

Aaaaaand yet you still believe he'll do something for social conservatism.

zzz

Aaaaaand yet you still believe he'll do something for social conservatism. — Heister Eggcart

Yes he'll destroy progressivism. He won't actually do anything positive for social conservatism. He'll just do the negative part of the job. He'll expose this corruption, including himself, for what they really are!

It's already been answered. She did give him her number and went to meet him in private despite the fact that, according to her, he kissed her unsolicited and despite the fact that it made her uncomfortable. As she said, she put it up to an unusual greeting rather than something more.

You really have no leg to stand on here, Agustino. Trump seems to be promoting and is allegedly engaging in the exact type of behaviour that you condemn, and yet you're willing to vote him into the Presidency. That's hypocrisy. And your reasoning for this – that it will undermine the progressivism that promotes sexual assault – is both a strawman, given that progressivism doesn't promote sexual assault, and, again, hypocritical, given that you're voting into a power a man who seems to promote such immoral behaviour.

No amount of victim blaming is going to save you.

It's already been answered. She did give him her number and went to meet him in private despite the fact that he kissed her unsolicited and despite the fact that it made her uncomfortable. As she said, she put it up to an unusual greeting rather than something more. — Michael

So then I suppose the answer is yes. If your favorite movie star forcibly kisses you, and you're hoping to have a Hollywood career, you give them your phone number and agree to meet them in a PRIVATE PLACE. Is this the advice you would give your daughter for example - would you tell her the kiss is just a greeting?

For some reason I think you're not being honest. We both really do know this isn't what you'd do. And yet you refuse to admit what this implies about her honesty and how she really perceived the events at the time.

You really have no leg to stand on here, Agustino. Trump is promoting and allegedly engaging in the exact type of behaviour that you condemn, and yet you're willing to vote him into the Presidency. That's hypocrisy. And your reasoning for this – that it will undermine the progressivism that promotes sexual assault – is both a strawman, as progressivism doesn't promote sexual assault, and, again, hypocritical, given that you're voting into a power a man who does promote such immoral behaviour. — Michael

Yes because I want to unmask this sexually immoral progressive culture. Trump is the baboon to do it. That's the type of person we need.

A more concise expression of your faults I have not seen. What matters is, you know, not avoiding immoral actions in the first place, but rather just that those who perform them are punished (by becoming president???).

In practice, you are only interested in punishment. The question of one's moral responsibility to other individuals is irrelevant. Trump's responsibility to not sexuality hassass and assault women doesn't matter to you, not when there is punishment to be had.

Even punishing someone for being in a situation where they become a victim of immortality is more important to you. A woman meets a hassasser on the chance there might be a job, and the wrongness of that action, and it's punishment (i.e. "Well, what did you expect. You deserved it), is more significant than Trump's moral responsibility to others.

A more concise expression of your faults I have not seen. What matters is, you know, avoiding immoral actions in the first place, but rather just that those who perform them are punished (by becoming president???).

In practice, you are only interested in punishment. The question of one's moral responsibility to other individuals is irrelevant. Trump's responsibility to not sexuality hassass and assault women doesn't matter to you, not when there is punishment to be had.

Even punishing someone for being in a situation where they become a victim of immortality is more important to you. A woman meets a hassasser on the chance there might be a job, and the wrongness of that action, and it's punishment (i.e. "Well, what did you expect. You deserved it), is more significant than Trump's moral responsibility to others. — TheWillowOfDarkness

No Trump's moral responsibility is important. That's why I said he should be judged for it. I do recommend voting him for President because it's a vote for pulling the masks off from progressivism and unmasking all its lies, including the sexually immoral society it has created. Hence why it's a strategic vote - not a vote for support.

Judged how? You are giving him a free pass. You don't specify any sanction against, either lawful or social. Indeed, you activatly say it doesn't really matter, that's "it's just the system" and place responsibility for the action on the woman looking for a job.

Really, he'll destroy progressive rhetoric? All I see him bringing is an increase in Oval office incompetency, a distinct blind eye toward and passive support for the furthering of vile, hateful, and divisive attitudes toward minorities and others, an increase in the already inseparable ties money has with political movement, a distinct lack of experience for anything a President should have, such as foreign policy, the list could really go on and on.

If your idea of destroying progressivism is replacing it with the rotten throwaways of some social conservatism playing as the devil, then sorry, I'mma say nope to that all day, every day.

Judged how? You are giving him a free pass. You don't specify any sanction against, either lawful or social. Indeed, you activatly say it doesn't really matter, that's "it's just the system" and place responsibility for the action on the woman looking for a job. — TheWillowOfDarkness

Judged by being trialed and if found guilty put in jail. Simple. I have never said it's just the system. I've always insisted he is responsible. But the system has encouraged and will keep encouraging the existence of people like him unless we take down progressivism.

If your idea of destroying progressivism is replacing it with the rotten throwaways of some social conservatism playing as the devil, then sorry, I'mma say nope to that all day, every day. — Heister Eggcart

A destruction is painful. Of course. But it's necessary BEFORE we can introduce social conservatism. A corrupt and decadent society like today will not accept social conservatism unless we can show them the tragedy that is the end result of progressivism. They still cling to fictions, that Trump really isn't the end product of their society, or it's possible to have the promiscuity while avoiding men like Trump - those are lies. Trump is the perfect baboon to do it.

So he's meant to run the country from jail is he?

Furthermore, the evidence is against progressivism causing people like him. Even a quick look at history shows the rich and powerful doing exactly the actions like him all over the place.

Perhaps worse, one arm of "progressivism" (feminism) is one of the few social movements to sexual harassment and assault seriously, which has had a significant impact on the issue within last few decades. In terms of sexual harassment and assualt, your politcal answers would actually take us backwards.

I, unfortunately, see no difference in the world run however anyone imagines it. The societies of man will always fail. You just have to ride the wave. To think you can change the world and somehow make it better in your own image...naw.

So he's meant to run the country from jail is he? — TheWillowOfDarkness

No he should be arrested after he finishes his first term.

Furthermore, the evidence is against progressivism causing people like him. Even a quick look at history shows the rich and powerful doing exactly the actions like him all over the place. — TheWillowOfDarkness

At least it was just the rich and powerful. Now it's everyone. That's the problem. Back then it was contained.

Perhaps worse, one arm of "progressivism" (feminism) is one of the few social movements to sexual harassment and assault seriously, which has had a significant impact on the issue within last few decades. In terms of sexual harassment and assualt, your politcal answers would actually take us backwards. — TheWillowOfDarkness

The first wave of feminism was respectable - requesting suffrage, etc. But the current feminazis .... they are utter disaster. They want women to go naked on the street. They want women to have 1000 sexual partners and say to everyone how many sexual partners they have without ever being called sluts or being told what they're doing is immoral. That's lunacy.

"If the world is not a fiery pit, we'll make it one. Then they'll understand the horror they've turned the world into."

The only trouble is, you know, it was you that made that fiery pit people finally couldn't stand. Not "progressivism" responsibility, but your own.

No he should be arrested after he finishes his first term. — Agustino