guess that also rules out your creator of time then...? — Luke
Even though creation without time seems impossible? — Luke
Stuff happens in spacetime without time: photons get around without experiencing time. So change without time seems possible; hence timeless creation maybe possible — Devans99
- An endless infinite regress in time of some sort
- A timeless first cause
I am pretty sure the first is impossible; not so with the second. — Devans99
Then you must allow the same for presentism, and your previous argument fails. — Luke
What makes the first impossible? — Luke
So its creation ex nihilo. — Devans99
With eternalism, its not creation ex nihilo - there is something other than 'only now' to do the creating. — Devans99
But when the system is viewed as a whole, it has no first event, so none of the events in the infinite regress can exist. — Devans99
Yes, you just made an argument for creation ex nihilo with your photons example. Otherwise, it remains the case that "creation without time itself...seems impossible". — Luke
I don't follow why no events would exist without a first cause. This seems based only on your assumption that a first cause is necessary. It does not explain why it is necessary. — Luke
What I mean is:
- creation without time and anything else is impossible
- creation without time but with something else is possible — Devans99
In order to conclude that nothing exists if now doesn't exist, you would need to prove nothing exists besides space and time which you obviously don't believe yourself. There may be higher dimensions beyond time and space. — coolguy8472
The universe does not seem very finely tuned for life to me. Otherwise you'd think SETI would have discovered life somewhere else by now. Most life cannot survive outside of Earth's atmosphere without protection for more than a few seconds. Most of the observable universe is a vacuum. That's a lot of billions of light years of space that's not finely tuned for life. — coolguy8472
Presentism seem to preclude such higher dimensions - by saying 'only now exists' - it says to me that all things that exist, exist in the present. — Devans99
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