Killing humanity for selfish reasons

Anaxagoras

Prior to responding please watch the following video:

Now in another online forum I was discussing utilitarianism with another person and somehow the conversation drifted to the discussion that maybe humans as a species need to die. I asked why, and said person proclaimed that “humanity is a virus that is killing the planet.”

I concur for selfish reasons we seem to maintain a course that is damaging our planet, not to mention our daily routines and our very lifestyles and habits contribute to this. But does that mean I as an individual deserve to die? I asked the individual if they believe in suicide. The individual stated that suicide is rational on the basis of perpetual pain caused by a terminal illness and that all other viable options for cure and pain mitigation have been exhausted.

Okay sounds good....

I asked ok, what about those who suffer from suicidal ideation who feel hopeless? The individual stated that psychological distress and it’s perpetual affect on the mind causing mental anguish is just as painful therefore suicide ought to be permitted.

So long story short the conversation lead to me asking the question of “if humanity is a virus and we all contribute to hurting the planet and if population control is necessary then why don’t you kill yourself to help the process?”

Of course he made excuses along the lines of “suicide is an irrational decision based on his productivity as a contributor to family and community” blah blah blah. Most people who are suicidal feel hopeless and without options, but for those who speculate the fate of others I find it hypocritical some could sit there and be in agreement on population control or controlling the fate of others using population control as a proxy, but aren’t willing to die themselves for the betterment of society.

I believe if you truly believe humanity or at least a lot of the population needs to die you ought to have no issue being among that selected group. I find it equally peculiar that we humans look at our existence now and think of our planet in its state and that we have reached our capacity as a species. I find it scary that some believe in my death without me actualizing my full potential, and that like in the video, believe that we should “give someone else a chance.”

Louco

Imagine what will feel the researcher who creates the first artificial intelligence entity. Sure, it will start as a baby's mind, and the researcher will have the choice of shutting it down or not.

If he keeps it, it may outsmart humans, and bring about the end of the human species by being out-competed by the machines.

If you are the researcher, and you have clarity about your options, what would you choose? The choice that preserves humankind but condemns the universe to not be known by a species even more smart than humans?

I think that what is most human about humans is our consciousness, and if we ever have the chance to have offspring that has more powerful consciousnesses than ourselves, we ought to do it - although it is suicide of the species.

Judaka

↪Anaxagoras

Wanting to kill humans for the sake of the planet is such an unpragmatic, foolish way of thinking. Impractical, nonsensical nature-orientated altruism and you found someone who's so unpragmatic in his thinking that while he wants to cull humanity down or get rid of humanity completely, he's defending his own existence with the same kind of reasoning that most other people would use. Great.

ssu

Wanting to kill humans for the sake of the planet is such an unpragmatic, foolish way of thinking. Impractical, nonsensical nature-orientated altruism and you found someone who's so unpragmatic in his thinking that while he wants to cull humanity down or get rid of humanity completely, he's defending his own existence with the same kind of reasoning that most other people would use. Great. — Judaka

Of course he made excuses along the lines of “suicide is an irrational decision based on his productivity as a contributor to family and community” blah blah blah. — Anaxagoras

There you have it, it is blah blab blah.

"Humans are a virus that is killing the planet" is a trendy sounding quasi-intellectual statement which people like hipsters can adhere to (even if your friend isn't one).

BC

↪Anaxagoras

I didn't find the video clip very helpful.

The idea that human beings are a parasite feeding on the planet crops up every now and then.

"Humans are a virus that is killing the planet" is a trendy sounding quasi-intellectual statement which people like hipsters can adhere to (even if your friend isn't one). — ssu

This is a fully sufficient analysis.

Maybe we will be plowed under in the Sixth Extinction Event, maybe not. Life has almost come to an end on the planet five times, already.

We really ought to be more proactive about maintaining the one and only ecosystem we are going to get, but...

Anaxagoras

↪Louco

I think as Jean Luc Picard thinks about humanity (as he discussed it with Q).

Anaxagoras

We really ought to be more proactive about maintaining the one and only ecosystem we are going to get, but... — Bitter Crank

But its our way of life that is preventing it. More importantly the issue I have are those who argue from a position of population control yet they themselves would not like to be among those who are selected for termination.

BC

But its our way of life that is preventing it. — Anaxagoras

It is, I think, species-deep rather than life-style that prevents us from dealing with population and global warming. Intelligence puts us in an odd position. We have intelligence but we also have emotional drives and cognitive limitations. We don't seem to be able to fully engage in thinking about the changes that we might have made (our problem with carrying out long range plans or dealing with distant threats), and while we can imagine "those people" being sacrificed for the good of all, we can't emotionally countenance putting ourselves among "those people".

I see these limitations in myself. I think I have a clear enough understanding of what it would take to radically reduce CO2 and methane production. As time goes on, the changes that would be required become more onerous. Am I make those radical changes in my lifestyle? No. I am not better than most people at immediate sacrifice for distant benefit.

unenlightened

I am not better than most people at immediate sacrifice for distant benefit. — Bitter Crank

Unlike poor BC here, I saw the writing on the wall many years ago, and did the decent thing. Because we are generally quiet, our numbers are always underestimated, but you can see for yourselves that as the rational folks depart, what remains of humanity becomes more and more irrational. Perhaps we should have foreseen that...

Louco

I think as Jean Luc Picard thinks about humanity (as he discussed it with Q). — Anaxagoras

Well, what is becoming if not transformation? And what is transformation of the species, if not extinction?

I agree that humankind has in it the potency for greatness; but if we can build offspring that seems even more potent than we, I say it is our duty to go for it.

Anaxagoras

↪Bitter Crank

Is it "species-deep" that some people in brazil still have old refrigerators that are releasing carbon dioxide in the air, or that we still use aerosol deodorant/fragrance sprays? I very much believe our lifestyle contributes to the issues with our planet. I mean a lot of us (not you specifically) have bad habits like littering, destroying trees for land acquisition etc.

BC

↪Anaxagoras

Both of us together could make up a very long list of the various things we are doing wrong or not doing right -- old refrigerators in Brazil probably being the least of it. Of course, on one level, global warming is caused by billions and billions of small decisions people made to do one thing and not something else. On a higher level, there are very large processes (like the petroleum and coal industries) that are harder for individuals to change directly. On a yet higher level, there is the wreckage left by 300 years of industrial activity that can not now be undone.

What I mean by "species deep" isn't the individual choices we make. Individually, we are screwing things up. I think it is our collective inability to grasp the extremely wide expanse and great depth of the problem that faced us collectively. We just can not grasp the profound gravity of it. We can't really contemplate our collective death. I'm reconciled to my death in the not too distant future. I can't grasp our collective death even if it is a century or two away (if it is).

It is sort of like people thinking we can travel to planets around other stars in a few decades. The immensity of distance between us and the nearest star is difficult to grasp. The numbers are too large. What does 186,000 miles per second mean to a species who have gotten reved up to... something like a measly 22,000 miles per hour.

Anaxagoras

↪Bitter Crank

I see your point BC well put

Killing humanity for selfish reasons

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