https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/01/trump-mexico-border-avocados?CMP=fb_gu&fbclid=IwAR3q2KpSD8VNqSwKRBwh6EAKGNepe9ktpesLtar8gyd_C22Z1nVHm9OjlhM

Trump hurts people. Very likely he has always hurt people. He has already hurt millions of people, albeit most of them indirectly. But it's coming. It is a great shame that some of the laborers he cheated years ago did not educate him with a baseball bat, or the various prosecutors he skated past or the IRS didn't reel him in. We should be made of sterner stuff. Maybe some of us are. He's the poster child for, "If good men do nothing...".

I trust our nation of laws, but they seem slow, and to be sure subject to manipulation. All are problems to be solved. And Henry II whispers, "Will no one rid us..!".

It's very hard not to get riled up at times, and I try to remember that the worst of politicians want to exploit my anger. So as my friends here are a bit fractious today, I thought to remind y'all that if you close the border, we'll be making a trade deal for all those avocados at a knockdown price in exchange for the lamb we can't export to the EU any more. Let's try and remember that the dirty foreigners have been feeding us and buying our crap all these years, and are just trying to get by in hard times like we are.

I get very angry over false accusations regarding the things I care a lot about. I don't think I've ever resorted to such extreme flaming in my ten years as part of this forum and the old one, so congratulations. — S

I still don't quite understand why your head exploded there, but I think it's quite possible that you aren't sexist so much as unaware of some stereotypes. If you'd let me explain:

It's like your thinking changes with your mood, — S

This touches on a pretty old stereotype that says women are weak by virtue of their tender emotions. They can't be relied upon to think straight. I've interacted with Tiff for a while now and haven't noticed that her heart is necessarily always in charge of her brain. In fact there are a number of males on the forum who do stand out as exhibiting that tendency, but not Tiff. That's why you come across as throwing out a sexist stereotype for the purpose of being a hurtful. As I said, I think it's quite possible that you didn't even know about that stereotype, but could you not be open minded enough to hear what I'm telling you?

I much prefer the sympathetic Tiff to the angry ranting Tiff. — S

Yes, so you did temper this with the next sentence, which said you wanted to see the ranting Tiff direct her ire at a better target. Nevertheless, you should understand that you hit the big red button with this one sentence. In the past, men were allowed to rant. It was seen as a sign of strength. As Adolph Hitler spat all the way across the audience with his fuming, no one thought of his behavior as inappropriate. If he'd been a woman, the screaming would have been a problem. The small amount of credibility a woman might have had would be reduced to zero by even a mild rant. This has held women back in a number of professions where expressions of aggression are part of the scene, such as in politics.

So for what it's worth: just be aware of the stereotypes you might be pinging with your statements.

I don't think anyone actually believed that Trump could get away with closing the border, though I think we know he's capable of actually doing something that stupid.

The threat of placing tariffs on Mexican car imports, a year from now without compliance with his demands, is weird but maybe works for him? For his supporters, he gets to appear to be the tough guy who mussels Mexico into compliance, and they'll forget about it by next week. Unfortunately, the auto industry doesn't have the luxury to possess such a short memory. An industry like that requires long-range planning, investment, and so benefits from predictability.

And just like that he's going to renege on the trade agreement that he's been bragging about for months and hasn't even been ratified yet? A good deal maker should at least try to appear somewhat trustworthy.

The threat of placing tariffs on Mexican car imports, a year from now without compliance with his demands, is weird but maybe works for him? — praxis

A year from now? A year from now??? We don't have a big enough boat my friend. We are not going to make it a year at this rate without a preventable tragedy.
The right balance may have been to refocus CBP at the ports of entry and only allow commercial vehicles across the border, that way they can be properly inspected for the detection of drugs that are coming in and reduce the damage that will be done on the economic stability of both countries.
But he didn't do that.
~shaking my head~
This is unsustainable, heartbreaking and no one else is speaking up. :broken:

The right balance may have been to refocus CBP at the ports of entry and only allow commercial vehicles across the border, that way they can be properly inspected for the detection of drugs that are coming in and reduce the damage that will be done on the economic stability of both countries. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Okay, say that we all started subscribing to the WH rhetoric, built a giant impenetrable concrete and steel border wall from sea to shining sea, and somehow managed to block all illegal drugs, guns, and gang members from entering the country from Mexico. Drug problem solved? Gang problem solved? Gun problem solved? Crime solved?

It would have an effect of course but you must realize how politicized these issues are. If we really cared about American drug abuse, gang violence, gun control!?, and crime in general, is this really the best approach to effectively address it?

Okay, say that we all started subscribing to the WH rhetoric, built a giant impenetrable concrete and steel border wall from sea to shining sea, and somehow managed to block all illegal drugs, guns, and gang members from entering the country from Mexico. Drug problem solved? Gang problem solved? Gun problem solved? Crime solved? — praxis

In my opinion that rhetoric you are speaking of above is only exacerbating the perception or in this case the misconception of the complexity at the border that we are really encountering. I, nor anyone who knows the geography of our Southern border would advocate for a "border wall from sea to shining sea" so please, I am trying my best not to feed into the rhetoric.

It would have an effect of course but you must realize how politicized these issues are. If we really cared about American drug abuse, gang violence, gun control!?, and crime in general, is this really the best approach to effectively address it? — praxis

If you would be so kind to take an honest look at the link above, I think I might have a solution to the drug trap. I just ask, if you watch it to comment, if not then don't.
Both of the drugs coming across our border, Methamphetamine and Heroin (Opiate)are drugs I have been personally involved with and almost lost my life to both. There is a problem in our need/desire for the drugs and it no longer being able to be produced in backyard labs in the USA, as the crack down on the purchase of the ingredients was effective.

To your question of gang violence and guns? What little I do know is that if you are in the USA illegally, the chances of your reporting a crime are slim to none for you don't want a spotlight on your citizen status. When someone is here illegally, they cannot legally work. If you cannot find work and have no way to provide for your family here in the USA are you going to leave and head to Canada? How many will many have any choice other than to resort to crime out of desperation?

Okay, say that we all started subscribing to the WH rhetoric, built a giant impenetrable concrete and steel border wall from sea to shining sea, and somehow managed to block all illegal drugs, guns, and gang members from entering the country from Mexico. Drug problem solved? Gang problem solved? Gun problem solved? Crime solved?
— praxis

In my opinion that rhetoric you are speaking of above is only exacerbating the perception or in this case the misconception of the complexity at the border that we are really encountering. I, nor anyone who knows the geography of our Southern border would advocate for a "border wall from sea to shining sea" so please, I am trying my best not to feed into the rhetoric. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

So inaccurate claims about the border situation exacerbate its complexity. Yeah, I can agree with that.

If you would be so kind to take an honest look at the link above, I think I might have a solution to the drug trap. I just ask, if you watch it to comment, if not then don't. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Sounds like it may be an effective approach.

There is a problem in our need/desire for the drugs and it no longer being able to be produced in backyard labs in the USA, as the crack down on the purchase of the ingredients was effective. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

I wouldn't say that diminished domestic production of illicit drugs was a problem. In a quick google search I couldn't find anything supporting the claim that illicit synthetic opioids or meth production is impossible or severely hampered in the US.

When someone is here illegally, they cannot legally work. If you cannot find work and have no way to provide for your family here in the USA are you going to leave and head to Canada? How many will many have any choice other than to resort to crime out of desperation? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

From factcheck.org:

there aren’t readily available nationwide crime statistics broken down by immigration status. But the available research that estimates the relationship between illegal immigration and crime generally shows an association with lower crime rates.

Sounds like it may be an effective approach. — praxis

I apologise for the delay in fixing my link. Please try it again.

Sounds like it might be an effective approach to a difficult problem. I was able to watch it, btw, when I used a computer. I was away from home and using a phone when I tried it the first time.

I didn't care for the presentation, which is heavy with what is intended to be emotionally persuasive content and light on information about the actual proposed solution.

''The secret of the demagogue is to appear as dumb as his audience so that these people can believe themselves as smart as he is.'' - Karl Kraus

I apologise for the delay in fixing my link. Please try it again. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Saw this earlier, btw. Really sad to look at how Seattle has changed from my childhood in the early 1980's. It was a really nice city back then.

It tells how the US has a problem in basically doing the correct thing and how a liberal city can make things worse: first, the hysteria against any social programs that would intervene in the "freedoms" of the individual or any program depicted as socialist makes it extremely difficult to implement them. Secondly, the permissive "liberal" policies are then unable to handle crime that comes with a drug epidemic and simply turns into denial.

Funny that Rhode Island is quite blue.

Not sure if you guys saw this video of Trump after the Mueller report. He never ceases to amaze.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1109962032995069952

Mad skillz.

Trump and and the rest of the conservatives are trying to get Ilhan Omar killed.

If you are a Congressperson who questions American Imperialism the GOP will place their crosshairs on you, while the Dems shrug their shoulders. All the more true if you are a black Muslim woman.

I'm looking at the Democratic field of candidates and I'm getting a bad feeling that Trump is going to be re-elected.

The only joy I can extract from it is that of anticipating watching all the Democratic heads exploding.

The Dems are split on this. Sanders, Warren, and others have spoken up strongly whereas Pelosi and her ilk have melted like ice-cubes in a stream of dog piss.

As younger generations of Democrats/leftists are gaining political clout viz., Millennials or are finding their political voice viz., Gen Z, both of which lean far more left on key issues than older generations, the older/more moderate members of Democratic party will have to contend with two generations worth of voters who are increasingly exasperated by the many failings of the party from the last 40 years (the symptom of which has culminated in Trump) and are demanding (and will vote for) seismic changes.

According to the latest Emerson Polling, Bernie Sanders is the Democratic front runner, ahead of Biden by 5% (29% and 24% respectively). Harris and O'Rourke are only at 8%. I still think it's odd that Biden, who has not announced his candidacy, is still featured in surveys. It obscures the fact that Sanders is by far the leader of those who have actually announced.

But baby boomers were leftist when they were young. That didn't last, did it?

Were they? Boomers are predominantly conservative and this affiliation has been consistent over time.

Not really. Leftist Baby Boomers were a minority. An extremely vocal one at times, but a minority all the same. There may be some evidence to suggest that as people get older they become more conservative, but the transformation is generally slight. Usually people retain the political affiliations and beliefs they develop in their twenties throughout their lives.

It also shouldn't be understated how major events can shape generations. For Millennials, the numerous catastrophes of the Bush administration, particularly the economic recession in 2007, the disappointment of the Obama administration, and the failure of the Democratic establishment to stop the election of Trump is seared into the collective consciousness of that age group. For Gen Z, the disasters of Trump and his administration and an increasingly inequitable economy will continue to mold their political views.

Boomers are predominantly conservative and this affiliation has been consistent over time. — praxis

You may be right. Do you know what percentage of boomers were leftist in the first half of the 70s?

Can anyone on the Trump support perspective explain to me what justifies his comments towards Ilhan Omar and the subsequent threats on her life? I'm trying to figure out how when she said in her speech regarding 9/11 "some people did something."

It also shouldn't be understated how major events can shape generations — Maw

True. I will never forget this most glorious day:

Sounds about right for you