I should've said OR adultery, or bla bla. There are some progressives which are encouraging of even adultery, just not most.Uh, no, I don't think so. — Heister Eggcart
Because you talked of morality apart from religion. So I was inquiring about it.Apart from religion? What do you mean by that, exactly? — Heister Eggcart
So. Suppose you are married to a woman, and she becomes crippled and can't have sex anymore. You are overcome by your sexual desires, etc. is it moral in that case to have sex with another woman to release the sexual tension you are troubled by?I am of the opinion that sex is only moral when it is necessary as a means of healthily releasing the sexual tension most people instinctively find themselves crippled by — Heister Eggcart
I agree.If a couple, say, must have sex in order for them to keep "loving" them, then to me that quite distinctly tells me that they don't actually love each other. They're only lusting after the other's body. — Heister Eggcart
No. Answer my question. — WhiskeyWhiskers
Answer my question. Are you a true Christian? — WhiskeyWhiskers
I have a lot of defects and shortcomings which prevent me from achieving that standard many times — Agustino
There are some progressives which are encouraging of even adultery, just not most. — Agustino
Because you talked of morality apart from religion. So I was inquiring about it. — Agustino
So. Suppose you are married to a woman, and she becomes crippled and can't have sex anymore. You are overcome by your sexual desires, etc. is it moral in that case to have sex with another woman to release the sexual tension you are troubled by?
Furthermore, if you are a regular husband, and your wife simply doesn't want to have as much sex as you do, is it moral for you to have sex with other women to release the tension you feel? — Agustino
What you deserve shall happen to you - and I'm not sure what that means. I'm not sure if you're a devout Muslim, or Buddhist, or any other of the major faiths you'll end up in hell. I hope God will have mercy of me and give me the strength and wisdom to be a true Christian until I die, although I probably wouldn't deserve it by myself.You're not a true Christian if you don't follow the Bible.
If you're not a true Christian, what happens to you after you die? — WhiskeyWhiskers
Indeed :PYes, and there are some conservatives out there batty enough to vote for Trump O:) — Heister Eggcart
Okay. I'm not one of them then ;)There are quite a few too many Christians out there that think you can't be or even discuss morality unless you're religious. — Heister Eggcart
Ok so then I suppose your previous definition wasn't quite what you meant:Nope. — Heister Eggcart
So what really is your idea about when sex is moral then?I am of the opinion that sex is only moral when it is necessary as a means of healthily releasing the sexual tension most people instinctively find themselves crippled by — Heister Eggcart
I have a lot of defects and shortcomings which prevent me from achieving that standard many times — Agustino
If they do not follow the teachings of the Bible, then they are not Christians — Agustino
What you deserve shall happen to you - and I'm not sure what that means. I'm not sure if you're a devout Muslim, or Buddhist, or any other of the major faiths you'll end up in hell. I hope God will have mercy of me and give me the strength and wisdom to be a true Christian until I die, although I probably wouldn't deserve it by myself. — Agustino
What do you mean a two-way street in this case?My clarification is this - sex and sexual tension is a two way street. — Heister Eggcart
So I suppose you must necessarily be talking at least of couples and more likely of married people here given that they must "share the struggle" am I right? So this would agree with the statement that sex before marriage (or at least before being a couple) is wrong.The only reason two people would have sex is to do so out of compassion for the other's struggle with it, which they also must share. — Heister Eggcart
What would you think about married people having sex because they enjoy the intimacy and spiritual relationship they have with each other?It has to be an honest coming together, and for the right reasons. — Heister Eggcart
I think that if that's what I deserve and that is God's will, then I shall go to hell. I wouldn't want that to happen - quite obviously - but if that's what it ends up being that's what it is. What do I think of the possibility? Well I feel fear and repulsion. I might add that I feel weakness, and I feel nothingness too. But I don't feel disgust, I don't feel injustice, I don't feel hatred towards God. It would only be what I deserve afterall.What do you think about that? What do you think of the possibility of going to hell for not being a Christian? — WhiskeyWhiskers
I'm quite sure if you do that you will go to hell. I'm not so sure if you're a devout Muslim, or Jew, or Buddhist, or Hindu, or Taoist, etc. that you'll go to hell after you die. And it depends on your inner life to be honest. It is possible for someone to be very sinful and afterwards find repentance and be saved by God's grace.And if you're not sure if non-Christians will even go to hell, what the bloody hell is the point of Christianity? I might as well become one of those raunchy cancerous progressives and have lots of blasphemous sex because for all you know I might not even go to hell. — WhiskeyWhiskers
I'm not sure. The only problem is that you don't make deals with God. If this is what is in your heart - then you won't ever go to Heaven. Purgatory nor anything else are licenses to sin.Is Purgatory real? If I'm a sinner I might end up there, I don't mind waiting around a while before I go to heaven. — WhiskeyWhiskers
What would you think about married people having sex because they enjoy the intimacy and spiritual relationship they have with each other? — Agustino
Two married people having sex because they either want to have children or they just love each other. They do this freely, not because they are compelled and therefore enslaved by their lust. Do you not think this is a possibility?Wouldn't know what this means. Empty words and hokus pokus to me. — Heister Eggcart
Do you think married people preferably shouldn't have children then, or what do you mean by red flag? :PRed flag! — Heister Eggcart
Interesting position. It is indeed Biblical and in accordance with Scripture - although I hold to the opposite idea, which I also think has Biblical support and is in accordance to Scripture. Why do you think sex in and of itself doesn't have the possibility of being a moral activity? Do you concur with St. Paul that people should strive for complete celibacy if this is possible, and if so why?No. — Heister Eggcart
I'm not so sure if you're a devout Muslim, or Jew, or Buddhist, or Hindu, or Taoist, etc. that you'll go to hell after you die. And it depends on your inner life to be honest. It is possible for someone to be very sinful and afterwards find repentance and be saved by God's grace. — Agustino
I think that if that's what I deserve and that is God's will, then I shall go to hell. I wouldn't want that to happen - quite obviously - but if that's what it ends up being that's what it is. What do I think of the possibility? Well I feel fear and repulsion. But I don't feel disgust, I don't feel injustice, I don't feel hatred towards God. — Agustino
I have a lot of defects and shortcomings which prevent me from achieving that standard many times — Agustino
If they do not follow the teachings of the Bible, then they are not Christians — Agustino
I certainly believe so - and so do the main Christian Churches. I believe Christianity is the highest religion - not that it's the only possible path up the mountain.It's possible for non-Christian religious folk to not go to hell? — WhiskeyWhiskers
That's your judgement, I'm just being honest and saying that I don't know.But then you don't know if purgatory is real. If it isn't real then they must necessarily go to heaven because there's nowhere else for them to go. — WhiskeyWhiskers
Be careful. Buddhism isn't permissive of adultery, casual sex and the like. None of the major religions are. Neither were Stoics like Epictetus and Musonius Rufus. Neither was Epicurus funnily enough ;)So it's possible for devout non-Christian religious folk to go to heaven, regardless of whether they follow the bible (because a Buddhist is hardly going to be following the bible their whole life, they have different scripture) — WhiskeyWhiskers
They need to be moral people. And that includes sexual morality.Because if devout non-Christian religious folk could go to heaven, and they do not follow the bible, then those who do not follow the bible could go to heaven. Or do they need to be devoutly religious regardless of religion? — WhiskeyWhiskers
Absolutely!Take Socrates for example. He might be going to heaven, according to your logic. You might meet him one day. Do you believe that? — WhiskeyWhiskers
You can be assured that the Catholic Church for one does hold similar positions about virtuous men and women through history. Check what some Catholics think here: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=1010299I would ask to see you back this up with actual scriptural analysis, but I'm not in a position to verify it, not being a biblical scholar myself. You can breathe a sigh of relief. — WhiskeyWhiskers
What is the point of Buddhism if it's not necessary? It's a structured path for connecting with a spiritual reality and living a moral life that guarantees you the greatest happiness both here on Earth and in the afterlife. It includes the same core morality as Christianity does. The same that Islam does. The same that Hinduism does. It's no different.So, again, what is the point of Christianity if it is unnecessary? — WhiskeyWhiskers
Maybe for you. For me no - because while I feel fear, I also feel God's justice, and I desire God's justice. I desire that God smite all the sinners, including me. And I don't feel worthy of God - why should I be in Heaven if I'm not worthy? That would be disgusting.See this is how I know you don't genuinely believe any of this Christianity nonsense. If you genuinely believed you might be going to hell, you'd be infinitely more terrified by that than by anything that can happen to you in this life. And some pretty awful things can happen to you. "Fear" would not begin to describe that feeling. — WhiskeyWhiskers
I do my best to follow the teachings of the Bible. I aspire to follow all the teachings. Maybe it's not in our power to reach up to God - but it is in our power to aspire to it.You are not a Christian, regardless of your "inner life". If you don't follow the teachings of the Bible, you're not a Christian. What do you have to say about that? — WhiskeyWhiskers
I would be disappointed if I don't see him in there! And Musonius Rufus, and Marcus Aurelius, and Epictetus, and so forth!maybe even Socrates, depending how you wriggle yourself out of this one — WhiskeyWhiskers
I may not be one - but like Kierkegaard, I aspire to be one, and attempt to follow and live according to the teachings of my Bible. It's not as easy as you think to be a Christian....Here's the ironic corner you've painted yourself into: you are not a Christian — WhiskeyWhiskers
Eric Trump apparently thinks that even Billy Bush is an alpha male >:OTrump is not an alpha male. Jimmy Savile was not an alpha male. Bill Cosby is not an alpha male. — WhiskeyWhiskers
Of course the feminazis only have a problem with Trump - not also with the women - who have also behaved shamefully. — Agustino
Well that's a loaded question isn't it? I doubt that the way you frame it is the way it actually happened.Uhmmm... How exactly is, for instance, sitting in an air plane and having the bad luck of having Trump next to you, shameful behaviour? — Benkei
So doesn't a woman doing anything to get in the pants of a rich and powerful man derive from a lust for power and fame? Doesn't that derive from the desire of having the rich and powerful man as her property? Doesn't she use her physical attractiveness, and her personality as weapons of seducing the said man? The claim that all these women are completely innocent just demonstrates your ignorance of their own faults and vices. That's the problem with progressive culture - it's so blind. It only sees one side of the story. Many of these women derive an extraordinary sense of self-importance by claiming Trump raped them - they basically can think of themselves as THE people who brought the rich and powerful Trump down in this election! No one succeeded - not Jeb Bush, not Ted Cruz, not hundreads of millions of dollars! That's a massive source of motivation. It's their way of "owning" Trump.Also, this type of abuse derives from an overblown sense of entitlement and a degradation of women as property and subservient to men. The claim by you that these women wanted this only demonstrates your lack of empathy. — Benkei
The amount of animosity of the media, Hollywood and the academia (the three bastions of progressivism) to Trump is the same animosity cancer shows to chemotherapy. The progressives are so against Trump because Trump unmasks them - he unmasks their fakeness, their lies, and their immorality through himself. He is the product of their society - a society where your average Joe is a rapist like Trump. And your average woman is a power and fame hungry creature waiting to manipulate and abuse men through her sexuality. This is nothing but the cold truth. Now thanks to Trump we get to see it for the first time. We get to point at it - the mask has come off. The progressives can no longer go on pretending - even if Trump loses. Now everyone knows we have a BIG BIG problem - something that I had been saying for ages.Before the pussy grab remark video, the amount of animosity toward Trump at home across the entire globe (save in Russia it seems) was already staggering, and America in particular is perhaps nearing it's maximum potential emotional charge. — VagabondSpectre
Are you a true Stoic — Agustino
Just like I'm trying to be Christian :PThe only "true" Stoic is the Stoic Sage. But some of us are trying to be Stoics. — Ciceronianus the White
On what fucking ground do you claim such stupid nonsense huh? One gets sick and tired at some point of this superficial and uncharitable attitude you display. What's written below, please tell me:Agustino seems to think that things are moral or immoral on the basis of some authority, religion, the Bible or whatever. The truth is that causal sex is immoral because it burdens, obscures and/or injures the spirit. — John
I was mentioning morality and such as separated from religion. I think you can do that... — Heister Eggcart
Because you talked of morality apart from religion. So I was inquiring about it. — Agustino
There are quite a few too many Christians out there that think you can't be moral or even discuss morality unless you're religious. — Heister Eggcart
Okay. I'm not one of them then ;) — Agustino
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