I'm a big fan of CBT. It's not the solution to every problem, but it is the solution to many common problems. I also appreciate the commonality it has with Stoicism and Buddhism. — andrewk
Are you bipolar? — Bitter Crank
the practice of psychiatry isn't politically neutral, either on the side of the patient who requests a diagnosis due to failing to conform to the social values of modern society
— sime
It sounds like your concern about psychiatry relates to its practice in the criminal justice system, where the subject is not the doctor's client. That will always be problematic, just as it is with forensic pathologists and police surgeons.
But we can't avoid having that involvement, can we? What would be your preferred model for dealing with someone that is alleged to have committed a brutal crime and who pleads insanity or is suspected to be suffering from severe mental illness? — andrewk
I don't know a great deal about how it is used in the criminal justice system, but my impression is that the involvement of psychiatry is mostly related to determining the best method of dealing with the situation, rather than the assignment of guilt which is, in my opinion, purely a matter of opinion.If psychiatry is a science which t accepts that individuals are not self-causing agents, then I cannot see how psychiatric evaluation as currently practiced is particularly relevant to establishing guilt. — sime
I started a thread here, so some of you can continue to bitch a moan under a proper subject. I say "bitch and moan" because apparently a couple of you perceive to act like you know more about the realm of mental health, and considering that I've spent almost ten years of my academic life in its study not to mention this is what my current profession entails. — Anaxagoras
If you were a psychiatrist trained in a system where you are taught that concentration camps are normal, and that mentally healthy people are well-adapted to concentration camps, if your career and social status depended on you accepting that concentration camps are normal, would you look at the concentration camp itself as an external factor that could contribute to a person's dysfunction, or would you see the concentration camp as an essential part of reality that the person ought to adapt to? Would you then look for other causes behind the person's dysfunction, such as hypothesized brain defects, and then attempt to treat them by making the person ingest some drugs? If these drugs made the person's behavior appear less dysfunctional in the concentration camp, would you then consider these drugs to be an effective medication to treat the mentally ill? — leo
You're using a play on words and hypotheticals here because this would be utterly ridiculous. If you expect a serious answer can you use a less ridiculous hypothetical example? — Anaxagoras
Now, the practice of psychiatry in the West today is not as extreme as in Nazism, but there are parallels. — boethius
This is all I need to know.... — Anaxagoras
If a justice and prison system is maintaining oppressive and racist policies and the conditions in prison are inhumane and closer to a concentration camp of forced labour than to anything resembling justice and rehabilitation, then it is justified to resist such conditions. — boethius
You place a tremendous amount of responsibility on the mental health community for the enforcement of community values and propaganda on the citizens. — Hanover
Mengele was a physician I suppose, but I can't blame medical science for the horrible experiments on human beings, often children, that the Nazis performed. — Hanover
As another historical fact (which is why I cited that quote of you above) the 1970s marked a departure from using psychiatric diagnosis and psychiatric treatment on inmates, leading to a far more punitive approach to corrections than previously. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3762476/ — Hanover
Now, the practice of psychiatry in the West today is not as extreme as in Nazism, but there are parallels.
— boethius
This is all I need to know.... — Anaxagoras
Is it the job of psychiatrists to change society into a more just one? — Noah Te Stroete
Or is it there job to help individuals who are struggling to feel better? — Noah Te Stroete
Furthermore, there are good psychiatrists and bad psychiatrists. When I was at the UW psych ward, I was told by the head psychiatrist that he couldn’t change the world, but he could help me feel better. In my opinion, he was a good psychiatrist.
Dr. Israelstam of Madison, Wisconsin, told me after I told him that I was suicidal that he hoped he’d never see me again after he suggested that I might want to try heroin. He ended up going to prison on child pornography charges. He was a bad psychiatrist. — Noah Te Stroete
Boethius gets the Godwin Prize for being the first in the discussion to play the Nazi card. Yet another confirmation of Godwin's Law. — andrewk
Perhaps it should be a rule that any thread gets automatically closed after one hundred posts, to head off the inevitable Nazi comparisons. — andrewk
Furthermore, there are good psychiatrists and bad psychiatrists — Noah Te Stroete
Do you live in the United States? Is this an oppressive society? It certainly is if you are a young black man living in poverty, for example. — Noah Te Stroete
So, yes, I decided that it is best not to rock the boat too much because I was a target of the authorities at one time. I decided that I cannot change the world. Most psychiatrists are no different, and the good ones want to help people out of compassion. I decided I want to feel better as the world is. I suggest you give up your idealism and just let society evolve as it is wont to do. — Noah Te Stroete
I decided that I cannot change the world. — Noah Te Stroete
Most psychiatrists are no different, and the good ones want to help people out of compassion. — Noah Te Stroete
I decided I want to feel better as the world is. I suggest you give up your idealism and just let society evolve as it is wont to do. — Noah Te Stroete
Society's evolution is not independent of my actions, so what you say is simply not logically coherent: — boethius
However, in this discussion I'm only interested in establishing that an oppressive state will naturally use mental health sciences as a tool to further oppression. — boethius
But even if your statement is true for you and for me, I am largely an adherent to stoic formulation of ethics where the intention and "giving a good ol' try" is what matters. — boethius
even in a system that does more harm than good. — boethius
It seems like you think you can have an impact on societal affairs. If so, that sounds an awful lot like delusions of grandeur. — Noah Te Stroete
State oppression? Welcome to the world as it’s been since the formation of communities. No one will ever change that. — Noah Te Stroete
Now, if you live in Saudi Arabia, then it does very well need drastic changes. Just don’t stick your neck out too far lest your head get cut off. — Noah Te Stroete
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