Christians believe there are different possibilities for what happens after a person dies. Heaven, Hell, classrooms.

Jesus willingly died in some sense because most christans would say he was God. I'm not going to get into the whole issue of the trinity. A soldier dies for their country because they believe in what their country stands for, and i believe Jesus is the same way.

And yes the thought of death does make me happy. I have stories to back that up but i'm not sure i want to talk about that right now.

If Jesus was not a sinner, how could he have died? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Better, why did he have to be baptized and receive Christos?

Death will be a relief from the overwhelming paradoxes of living. I'm not yet wise enough to say I'm happy to know it, as its still a source of significant anxiety. Though such anxiety leads to interesting thought, so it isn't so bad in a way.

"Better, why did he have to be baptized by Christos?

Death will be a relief. I'm not yet wise enough to say I'm happy to know it, as its still a source of significant anxiety. Though such anxiety leads to interesting thought, so it isn't so bad in a way. "

i could explain to you why Jesus felt the need to be baptized by John but instead i'll say this: the answer deals with a particular religion and for you to think the person of religion can't come up with some loop hole for this sort of situation to make sense within the confines of the religion, i think that is obsurd.

I'm here to philosophize. I'll leave the apologetics up to people who feel called to be apologists or to preach.

I read on a person's T-shirt ''Nobody wants to die but everybody wants to go to heaven''. This, I think, sums up our pathetic situation - the chasm that separates hope from fact.

A soldier dies for their country because they believe in what their country stands for, — christian2017

In the case of Christianity, it is god, as the state in this scenario, that cause the crisis that demanded a needless death. This link speaks of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-91mSkxaXs

I do not see Jesus as believing in what god stands for as he would not stand for genocide or god giving us the notion that it is somehow good and just to punish the innocent instead of the guilty. Jesus, in fact, followed the Jewish law that posits the reverse as just.

Regards
DL

Anthony — Anthony

Good points.

Regards
DL

read on a person's T-shirt ''Nobody wants to die but everybody wants to go to heaven''. This, I think, sums up our pathetic situation - the chasm that separates hope from fact. — TheMadFool

I hear you.

It would take a vile way of thinking to think that one could spend many thousands of years in heaven above while watching most of those ones loved in life going through purposeless torture and death in hell.

Regards
DL

GCP, Anthony, and tmfool all feel confident christianity sucks and i feel christianity is almost as good or better than gnostisim. I posted my answers above. I'm not going to keep repeating my self.

I've met alot of non christians who have cruel ways of treating people and i do agree there are christians that treat people cruelly. Don't Gnostics believe in punishment for certain behavior? As for why people go to hell forever, i would say only wicked people go to hell forever who have not taken the easy way out and allowed Jesus to forgive them.

Are you happy to know you will die? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

why would I be happy if my life functions cease to stop?

Death or the fact that we die seems to be good news to Christians. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I disagree. I do not think all Christians want to die even if they believe they will attain salvation.

It is said that Adam’s sin brought death to earth and that the wages of sin is death. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Not according to Judaism and Islam.

Christians also sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Perhaps but how does that fit into the model of what God, so-called wants from us?

This indicates that part of god’s plan and desire is that all people should die. God’s plan cannot be derailed., if god is real. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

All life forms are destined to die this is the nature of mortal existence....nothing new.

Do you think god’s plan working? If it is working as god wishes, which must be so if there is a powerful god, and if death is good for us, does the thought of dying make you happy? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I was born and I die. This is the nature of a thing. Am I happy that I will die eventually? No. But I will die. I full submit to what God has planned for me.

If the notion of death makes you unhappy, then why sing of sin, --- and by inference, death, --- as being a happy fault and necessary to god’s plan? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I am not happy, where did you get this idea from?

If Jesus was not a sinner, how could he have died? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Because it is said in the Bible he was without sin? But more importantly because it was a part in the whole plan??

I am happy that I have lived as fully as possible, for some time now. I think that is what happens to anyone who faces death as a matter-of-fact issue, and keeps that thought around. I ready myself for death by wanting more and more out of life.
So many people seem to forget death, to simply absorb themselves in other matters. I try to respect their decisions and not think of it as escapism, but that is my prejudice.
Also, so many people think they will continue to exist in some form or another, after death. That is just some magical thinking that relegates our real world to become less real. Death as the inescapable dissolution of me is the only death worth considering. The concept of the afterlife imposes that the real world be interpreted as a draft, a classroom, a dream - in short, as preparation for the afterlife. It not only diminishes the nobleness of the real world - it makes people live for the afterlife, despising their real lives. It makes people more accepting of polluting and destroying the planet.

Am I happy that I will die? No. I think the question is badly formulated: happiness happens alongside the consciousness of death, and not because or despite the finiteness of being.

Are you happy to know you will die? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

As one gets older (I;m 82)...a thing happens that can best be stated as, "The fact that I am going to die is less troubling to me than it was when I was younger."

I don't consider it to be "happy that I am going to die (relatively soon)"...but rather that the prospect is not as unpleasant to contemplate as it once was.

My elderly aunt (9 years older than I) WANTS to die. She is not in despair, but she feels her life no longer has the kind of meaning that it had a while back...and is looking forward to release.

Not sure if I will get to that point also, but I understand her attitude.

Are you happy to know you will die? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I don't think anyone with a sane mind would be happy that their life functions will cease in the future.

Christians also sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

First time I'm hearing this. which Christian denomination is saying this?

This indicates that part of god’s plan and desire is that all people should die. God’s plan cannot be derailed., if god is real. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I believe in some way metaphorically, the story of Adam at least in part is to explain the morality of humanity.

If Jesus was not a sinner, how could he have died? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

By getting metal nails implanted in his wrists and feet placed up on a Roman instrument and slowly dying from asphyxiation.

GCP, Anthony, and tmfool all feel confident christianity sucks and i feel christianity is almost as good or better than gnostisim. I posted my answers above. I'm not going to keep repeating my self.

I've met alot of non christians who have cruel ways of treating people and i do agree there are christians that treat people cruelly. Don't Gnostics believe in punishment for certain behavior? As for why people go to hell forever, i would say only wicked people go to hell forever who have not taken the easy way out and allowed Jesus to forgive them. — christian2017

Why do you think that Christianity is better than Gnostic Christianity?
Christianity grew by inquisition and murder while Gnostic Christianity grew but good moral tenets.
Christianity is a homophobic and misogynous religion. Gnostic Christianity is a universalist religions that see women and gays as equals.
Christians posit that a genocidal and infanticidal god is good while Gnostic Christians think such a mass murderer to be evil.

Speak to those issues just for starters.

Of course Gnostic Christians believe in punishment and justice for evil doers.. Why do Christians punish women and gays for being exactly what Yahweh created them to be? Not that Yahweh is real.

Even if it is only people that end in hell, what kind of god do you have who punishes without purpose when he could just as easily cure them the way Jesus said he came to cure the sinners he ran into?

As to Jesus, your so called savior. Jesus said he came to fulfil the law and here you are trying to make him into a moral monster who would break the laws he came to fulfil. Here are his laws.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Do you agree that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral?

Do you agree that to abdicate personal responsibility or use a scapegoat is immoral?

If not, please show how it is morally and legally good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty, bearing in mind that all legal systems think that punishing the guilty is what is justice.

Regards
DL

why would I be happy if my life functions cease to stop? — Anaxagoras

That was not the question. I was comparing dying to living eternally.

Try this. Do you wish to live for eternity?

I disagree. I do not think all Christians want to die even if they believe they will attain salvation. — Anaxagoras

You think they would not want to be with their god. Ok.

Not according to Judaism and Islam. — Anaxagoras

True. We are not speaking of their ideologies but of the Christian ideology.

Perhaps but how does that fit into the model of what God, so-called wants from us? — Anaxagoras

It fits in as it questions what god wants. If a happy fault and necessary to his plan, then he would want us to sin.

All life forms are destined to die this is the nature of mortal existence....nothing new. — Anaxagoras

Not to Christians who expect their souls to live forever and I think they include new bodies.

I full submit to what God has planned for me. — Anaxagoras

Submit, like a slave, when Jesus said he came to serve and not be served by slaves.

Because it is said in the Bible he was without sin? But more importantly because it was a part in the whole plan?? — Anaxagoras

So you picked the contradiction that serves your thinking better. Quite the way to cherry pick.

First time I'm hearing this. which Christian denomination is saying this? — Anaxagoras

All who recognize Easter as it is an Easter hymn. I do not have the itinerary of all the churches or denominations.

I believe in some way metaphorically, the story of Adam at least in part is to explain the morality of humanity. — Anaxagoras

I agree. Christians condemn him and Gnostic Christians and Jews praise him.
What is your position? Was Eden where man fell, the Christian view even though they praise his happy fault of sinning, or the Gnostic Christian and Jewish position of Eden deing where man was elevated to god like status in terms of our moral sense?

By getting metal nails implanted in his wrists and feet placed up on a Roman instrument and slowly dying from asphyxiation. — Anaxagoras

Ineffective if he did not earn death through sin.

You can do better than this buddy. I hope.

Regards
DL

I am happy that I have lived as fully as possible, for some time now. I think that is what happens to anyone who faces death as a matter-of-fact issue, and keeps that thought around. I ready myself for death by wanting more and more out of life. — Louco

A perfect attitude. I share it.

So many people seem to forget death, to simply absorb themselves in other matters — Louco

I have to admit that I do that as death seldom enters my thinking. That does not prevent me from following your reply that I dubbed as perfect.

Also, so many people think they will continue to exist in some form or another, after death. That is just some magical thinking that relegates our real world to become less real. — Louco

True. That is why I hate the lying preachers and imams so much. They rob people of their lives.

It makes people more accepting of polluting and destroying the planet. — Louco

I would not take it that far as they also have children and I hope most want to leave them some kind of environment that can be lived in. It is hard to say though as most parents don't mind spending their inheritance by running tax deficits and loading the debt onto their children.

Regards
DL

Are you happy to know you will die? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Yes.

Life is long and one will tire of it after a while.
I am happy to know that somebody else will get a chance to live, that my departure will have made some space for them to live in.

Sometimes that seems like I believe in reincarnation and sometimes it doesn't.

As one gets older (I;m 82)...a thing happens that can best be stated as, "The fact that I am going to die is less troubling to me than it was when I was younger." — Frank Apisa

I will read this as you getting happier.
I base my getting happier on the how much happiness and purpose I get from life.
When I run out of both, I will be really happy that I will die as then life would have little to no meaning.

My elderly aunt (9 years older than I) WANTS to die. She is not in despair, but she feels her life no longer has the kind of meaning that it had a while back...and is looking forward to release. — Frank Apisa

I have seen that and is partially what prompted the question.
Do you think she would tell god where to put his eternal life if he offered it?
I believe I would as more of the same old same old would not be appealing to me.

Regards
DL

Yes.

Life is long and one will tire of it after a while.
I am happy to know that somebody else will get a chance to live.

Sometimes that seems like I believe in reincarnation and sometimes it doesn't. — andrewk

I hold no supernatural belief but I like your answer buddy.

Regards
DL

Gnostic Christian Bishop
132

As one gets older (I;m 82)...a thing happens that can best be stated as, "The fact that I am going to die is less troubling to me than it was when I was younger." — Frank Apisa


I will read this as you getting happier.
I base my getting happier on the how much happiness and purpose I get from life.
When I run out of both, I will be really happy that I will die as then life would have little to no meaning. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Yeah, something like that. The way I said it pretty much sums up the way I feel.

I may be old...but I am spry and enjoy every day. I'd just as soon not die any time soon...but when it happens, it will happen.

My elderly aunt (9 years older than I) WANTS to die. She is not in despair, but she feels her life no longer has the kind of meaning that it had a while back...and is looking forward to release. — Frank Apisa


I have seen that and is partially what prompted the question.
Do you think she would tell god where to put his eternal life if he offered it?
I believe I would as more of the same old same old would not be appealing to me.

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

My aunt is not much into the "god" notion...and I have never heard her say a word about any sort of heaven or hell. She seems content to suppose that when she dies, she will simply be dead. She has had four sisters (one being my mother), a brother, and a husband who have died. Never heard a word about "I will be with them" or any thoughts of that sort.

Are you happy to know you will die? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I nearly died last year. Happy about every day that I have lived after that. The real thing that would have sucked is that I have two young children and loving wife, who I wouldn't want to become a widow at her age. My own mother died when I was 17 so I can relate somehow to the loss of a parent. I can imagine how it would have felt if I would have been 12. As my daughter is 6, she wouldn't remember so much about me later.

Death is more about the people you leave behind, the one's who you are important to. They are the one's that are affected. People might be religious and believe in Heaven or some kind of afterlife, or be atheists and conclude that in death your body goes into recycling and your thinking simply ceases to exist. Have it one way or the other, it's same the people who live that mourn, not the people dead.

Old people can genuinely want to die: they have lost all their friends, they have seen it all and being old when you cannot do anything can be boring. I don't shed much tears for them. It's when young children die that gets to you. That is really sad.

That was not the question. I was comparing dying to living eternally. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

No you asked the question are you happy to know you will die? So, I answered it. Now if you were looking for something particular you should have written a fully formed paragraph to supplement that question. Instead you made it one sentence followed by a space so I therefore answered it as a stand alone question.

Try this. Do you wish to live for eternity? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Is this a straight forward question or am I supposed to answer this when comparing to living and dying? Do I want to live forever? No. because eternity is not guaranteed and since nothing in existence is guaranteed except death then no.

You think they would not want to be with their god. Ok. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

It makes me think of the quote:

"Everyone wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die." Sure, I'm sure there are Christians that want to go meet their "God," but it doesn't negate the natural inclination of wanting to live on their own terms.

It fits in as it questions what god wants. If a happy fault and necessary to his plan, then he would want us to sin. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I'm not sure I understand this.

Submit, like a slave, when Jesus said he came to serve and not be served by slaves. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Seriously taking statements I'm saying in another thread now? I'm not Christian for one, but when I say submit I do not question the particulars of my life whether I am free or am I a prisoner of causes and effects. Like a parent who dictates the through parental rearing, I believe a Creator deity who is ineffable perhaps in some indirect/direct is controlling the universe but that is my personal belief.

Not to Christians who expect their souls to live forever and I think they include new bodies. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Well that is Christian eschatology....

So you picked the contradiction that serves your thinking better. Quite the way to cherry pick. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Dude why are you cherry picking shit I'm saying to someone else in another thread? WTF that is some weird shit. If you look I was asking a question to another person.....

Ineffective if he did not earn death through sin.

You can do better than this buddy. I hope. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

You act like you did something clever....Not only are you weird but you took comments from another thread and quoted me here as if you're doing some "ah ha!" stuff man...SMH man some of you guys are very special.

I'm not taking up for that guy, but with regards to living forever, I don't think he was asking for an explanation, I believe the question was simply a "yes" or "no", do you want to live forever? The fact that eternity is not guaranteed is really irrelevant, because if you take that out of the equation then odds are that you would want to live forever if it was possible. Frankly I just think that gnostic christian guy is trying to scare people by bringing up the inevitability of death, and I think he feels like someone will be afraid of death if they say they want to live forever, so in that sense I see where you are coming from. However, there is a difference between accepting death and wanting to live forever, and that is you can have the desire to live forever, but still accept that death is inevitable and we are all going to die at some point. Moreover, we are all going to die whether you accept it or not, so it really doesn't do any good not to accept it.

If Jesus was not a sinner, how could he have died? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I don't think this thread has much to do with this, but that question was floating around, and I didn't see the answer anywhere.

I am not christian, but went to a 7th day adventist college that required WAY too many christianity courses so I got you covered here. First off, you were half-way to the answer with one of your earlier statements:

the wages of sin is death. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Jesus was crucified to die for humanity's sin. (everyone knows this) The part that is forgot is that Jesus takes on all of humanity's sin right before death (if he was without sin there would be no cause of his death). This is when Jesus says something along the lines of "why have you foresaken me?" as a divine being is suddenly thrust into a mortal body suffering the effects of sin, he is struggling and asks God for help. There is also mention of "god is saving something for Jesus in heaven", the best guess as to what is being saved is Jesus' divinity, which had to be sacrificed in order to take on sin.

Also, know that A LOT of the bible is just justifying that god does not lie (if the wage of death is sin, and Jesus is taking on humanity's sins, he MUST die or god is a liar).

Never heard a word about "I will be with them" or any thoughts of that sort. — Frank Apisa

My experience with the very old follows your pattern of not hearing them talk of that nonsense either.

Regards
DL

Old people can genuinely want to die: — ssu

Yes, and I see them as happy to not have an eternal life.
Nice that you lived through your crisis and know that we live vicariously through those we hang around for and love.

Regards
DL

Do I want to live forever? No. — Anaxagoras

That was what I wanted to know.

It fits in as it questions what god wants. If a happy fault and necessary to his plan, then he would want us to sin. — Gnostic Christian Bishop
I'm not sure I understand this. — Anaxagoras

Try thinking this way. Psychotropic drug studies show that drug users are risk takers.
Risk takers have been shown to be better adjusted than (tea totalers) those who never take risks.
As a parent who knows this, I kind of hope that my children take drugs, in a safe way, as that says that they are better adjusted than if they did not. Think of sin as a necessary evil or a small amount of evil within the larger good.

I also use evolution as an example of this. We must cooperate and compete to be normal. When we cooperate, we do not create a loser or victim who would feel evil has come his way. When we compete, which we must do, we create a loser or one who feels evil has come to him.
Creating a loser and hurting him is evil, but an evil that we must do if we are to continue evolving, which we must do. A small evil in a larger good.

Regards
DL

I believe a Creator deity who is ineffable perhaps in some indirect/direct is controlling the universe but that is my personal belief. — Anaxagoras

I see that as faith, not belief.
Beliefs are usually based on facts while faith lacks any facts.
That might be splitting hairs to you but it is a fact.

Regards
DL

Frankly I just think that gnostic christian guy is trying to scare people by bringing up the inevitability of death, — Maureen

Not at all.
My intent was to dissuade any who though eternity to be desirable from that thinking.
I also wanted to bring those who believe in the supernatural back to thinking in a healthy natural way.
Scriptures say that adults are to put away the things of children and that would include supernatural thinking.
I also wanted to compare heaven to hell to show how heaven would be hell when the souls in heaven had to watch most of their friends and family burning below them in purposeless torture forever.
Only the insane could live through that or respect a god who set up such a foul system.

Regards
DL

Jesus was crucified to die for humanity's sin. (everyone knows this) The part that is forgot is that Jesus takes on all of humanity's sin right before death (if he was without sin there would be no cause of his death). This is when Jesus says something along the lines of "why have you foresaken me?" as a divine being is suddenly thrust into a mortal body suffering the effects of sin, he is struggling and asks God for help. There is also mention of "god is saving something for Jesus in heaven", the best guess as to what is being saved is Jesus' divinity, which had to be sacrificed in order to take on sin.

Also, know that A LOT of the bible is just justifying that god does not lie (if the wage of death is sin, and Jesus is taking on humanity's sins, he MUST die or god is a liar). — ZhouBoTong

God is the father of lies.

Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. 1Kings 22:23

Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets. 2 Chron 18:22

Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people. Jer 4:10

And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
Ezekiel 14:9

For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. Thessalonians 2:11

O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. - Jeremiah 20:7

To me, God’s worse lie was to Adam and Eve. He told them they could eat of the tree of life and then reneged and in a real sense murdered them by denying them a remedy.

That pesky God sure works in mysterious ways.

As to Jesus dying for us. I do not think he would break the laws he said he came fulfill. Do you really want to make Jesus a moral monster?

Here are his laws.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Do you agree that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral? Do you agree that to abdicate personal responsibility or use a scapegoat is immoral?

If not, please show how it is morally and legally good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty, bearing in mind that all legal systems think that punishing the guilty is what is justice.

Regards
DL

That pesky God sure works in mysterious ways. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

hehe, I was not trying to suggest that Christian theology is accurate or even logical.

As to Jesus dying for us. I do not think he would break the laws he said he came fulfill. Do you really want to make Jesus a moral monster? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

??? What did I say that suggested this? Notice that Jesus never actually committed sin (based on the fantastic teachings of the bible). He simply accepted the burden of sin that humanity had/has/will accumulate (please do not ask me to make sense of this - it just is, like god).

Do you agree that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral? Do you agree that to abdicate personal responsibility or use a scapegoat is immoral?

If not, please show how it is morally and legally good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty, bearing in mind that all legal systems think that punishing the guilty is what is justice. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I think Christianity is a few basic moral principles dressed in a bunch of hogwash. You suddenly switched from asking "what do christians believe?" to "are christians justified in their beliefs?"

Do you agree that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

yep immoral. That being said, if I was given the opportunity to die, and in so doing, remove the suffering of all human beings so all are peaceful and happy (pure fantasy, but for the sake of argument), I HOPE I would choose to die. This does not suggest that innocents should die for others, just that we should admire the "innocents" that are willing to sacrifice their own well being for the good of others (one of those basic moral principles I was talking about).