Interesting, but I disagree.
19h — Banno
What is the "proper" understanding? — Terrapin Station
it may seem obvious to you that there are unconfirmed hypothetical facts, and there indeed may be, but as I said earlier they will only become actual facts when confirmed. The idea of a fact which could never be confirmed in principle is incoherent. So, facts and confirmation are inextricably tied. — Janus
What would be an example or two of that (of it "causing more fog than clarity") in your view? — Terrapin Station
"Meaning is shared" is what is wrong. No mental phenomena are literally shared in any sense. — Terrapin Station
It's not a fallacy to argue that the word "cat" means something other than "dog", — S
Why a group, though? Wouldn't an individual be sufficient? — Terrapin Station
To argue that it means something per what? — Terrapin Station
Both are objective aspects of the world that we can talk about. — Harry Hindu
When we think we are being objective but find out we were wrong, the reasons we find that we were wrong was because we were being more subjective and less objective. We were missing information, lied to, or committed a logical fallacy, like pleading to authority.[/quote]
Hmm. The reasons you provide, that I italicised...
Seem more objective that subjective.
What if we were misled by feelings of revulsion, a preference for blonds...
These would be subjective. — Harry Hindu
"I prefer...", if stated sincerely, is objectively true - its truth is not dependent on anyone's opinion.
— ChrisH
Isn't it dependent on the opinion of the speaker?
— Banno
No it's a statement of fact. I suppose you could argue that all statements of fact are "dependent on the opinion of the speaker". I'm not sure how useful that would be. — ChrisH
Does it? What is it in your example that is subjective? — Banno
here's' my contention: that there is a fairly straightforward use of "subjective" to talk about feelings and such. There is also a further use of "subjective" to talk about more philosophical stuff; this is a example of misappropriation. — Banno
The victim's experience of remembering what the criminal looked like is a subjective one. — frank
So it seems you are using subjective here to mean something different. What? — Banno
Not too bad.When the victim was first assaulted, she had a point of view of the criminal. So, for instance, she doesn't remember what the back of his head looked like. That's typical of the point of view. Some things are visible, others are not. An objective view doesn't have limits of that type. It seems to be everywhere.
The police artist asks her to recall the criminal's appearance. Now she has another point of view experience, except this time it isn't directed outward, but inward (so to speak) to the realm of memory.
So why not just say that the victim has a point of view, and be done with it?
What more is added by bringing in subjective? My contention is that it brings with it considerable harmful baggage. — Banno
Perhaps the most familiar basic issue in the theory of beauty is whether beauty is subjective—located ‘in the eye of the beholder’—or whether it is an objective feature of beautiful things. — SEP
Also, we don't usually talk about experiencing memories; we just have them. — Banno
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