I know some philosophers talk this way. I think it misleading. The remainder of your post serves as an example of what happens when a philosopher talks this way. — Banno
Forcing Newtonian beliefs and assumptions onto our perceptions forces us to see the world in a restricted, limited way, and to me that's what people are doing when they are using their Newtonian beliefs to construct an objective world in their minds supposedly existing independently of what physicist's call observation, without realizing that what they see as an objective world was constructed in part through their own Newtonian beliefs. — leo
you (and people agreeing with you) assume that there exists an objective world, existing independently of us, and that our perception is a window to this objective world. — leo
Leo talks of an "objective world". Again, I think it incumbent that he explain how an objective world differs from a world. — Banno
In what way is it self-contradictory? — leo
The root of the disagreement I see here is that you (and people agreeing with you) assume that there exists an objective world, existing independently of us, and that our perception is a window to this objective world. Whereas I (and presumably others) don't make such an assumption. I have noticed how different beliefs can make us see the world in very different ways, how believing in something make us see it exist. — leo
You started by rejecting the "objective world", but then speak of noticing how people see the world in different ways. What's the difference between the objective world and the world? — frank
An objective world is a world many seem to have in mind when they say things such as Jupiter has an objective existence independently of us. In contrast, I say that anyone is subjectively involved in constructing their world through their perceptions and beliefs. That what people call an objective world is nothing more than a subjectively constructed world they have agreed on. — leo
I see thanks, that was just a poor formulation on my part, when I say people "see the world in different ways", I mean to say people have their own subjective world, depending on their beliefs and perceptions. And that what many call an "objective world" is a subjective world they agree on. — leo
Leo concludes that the tree disappears when unobserved despite there being no evidence to support this. — Banno
I see thanks, that was just a poor formulation on my part, when I say people "see the world in different ways", I mean to say people have their own subjective world, depending on their beliefs and perceptions. And that what many call an "objective world" is a subjective world they agree on. — leo
Leo concludes that the tree disappears when unobserved despite there being no evidence to support this. — Banno
So many issues squeezed into such a small space.I didn't conclude this, I said that saying the tree exists independently of us when we do not perceive it is a belief. Do you agree that this is a belief, or do you see it as an objective fact? — leo
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.