So, what have I got wrong in my perception of women? — Wallows

I think yes, your perception is conditioned, or "warped" as you say, by your circumstances. But whatever we tell you will probably not alter those circumstances or change how you feel. You need to meet some women. You know that most women do not appear on PornHub, so you already know that your perception is wrong, and in what way it is wrong.

When I was young I was unsuccessful with women, and I had a kind of bitterness developing towards women who enjoyed sex or behaved overtly sexually. All of that stuff--which in retrospect is like a poison--disappears when your life changes, i.e., when you get laid and make friends with women. But I guess these days it's easier to get trapped in porn and misogyny because of the internet.

On the other hand, also because of the internet it's easier to meet other people now. Have you tried Tinder?

On the other hand, also because of the internet it's easier to meet other people now. Have you tried Tinder? — jamalrob

I'm not a fan of Tinder. I can't stand cheesy/sexual chat up lines and "normal" conversations via text are so boring. Nothing beats meeting people in real life.

Long term relationships are odd. Tolstoy said that what was the easiest sort of thing to understand but he was wrong.

Desire does not explain itself. It is mostly just there, like a homeless person on a bench.

On the other hand, also because of the internet it's easier to meet other people now. Have you tried Tinder? — jamalrob

That is a hook up site. I know a nurse who was pregnant from a guy off that site. She now has a child. I'm not "dissing" the people that use tinder but like other sites like POF (plenty of fish) I have heard these places are predominantly filled with men and some women looking to hook up.

You beat me to the punch

I'm not a fan of Tinder. I can't stand cheesy/sexual chat up lines and "normal" conversations via text are so boring. Nothing beats meeting people in real life — Michael

Tinder is a way of arranging such meetings, not an alternative to them.

Maybe that's how it's mostly used, but it's not really my experience of it.

Anyway, there are many other apps and sites that make it easy to meet people. And that's what it's about: meeting people.

And that's what it's about: meeting people. — jamalrob

And getting laid. I'm just poking fun and I do not deny your experiences. It's just that women I've known who use social media and dating apps tend to talk more about the sexual ramifications of membership and the male patronage.

Yes, by "meeting people" I probably mostly mean getting laid. The two are not mutually exclusive. In fact, it's not easy to get laid without meeting people. I met my wife (wife now, not then) on Tinder, and she later said she only agreed to meet me because I said I was "looking for friendship ...", which was rather dishonest of me.

Hey man whatever works for you. I'm glad you ultimately found companionship. For me, I've lived 37 years plus 14 years was spent trying to find the right woman (including social media/dating sites) after all the games women have played I decide to stay single but I love listening to the experiences of other men.

But whatever we tell you will probably not alter those circumstances or change how you feel. — jamalrob

What makes you say that? I've come along quite a bit, hereabouts and on the other old forum since I started engaging in philosophy for some ten even or odd years.

You know that most women do not appear on PornHub, so you already know that your perception is wrong, and in what way it is wrong. — jamalrob

Yes, but, it attracts quite a lot of attention, by many...

But I guess these days it's easier to get trapped in porn and misogyny because of the internet. — jamalrob

You think there is some link between the two if you don't mind me asking?

On the other hand, also because of the internet it's easier to meet other people now. Have you tried Tinder? — jamalrob

I'm not quite that desperate. What's going on here ask' the pig?

I'm a 28 year old virgin who spends their time on PornHub and the likes — Wallows

I'm not quite that desperate — Wallows

Ok

Ok — jamalrob

Mind you I don't spend my entire day on PronHub. Now, that outta the way, can we proceed?

Try not to define yourself by something so arbitrary as virginity, and try to keep an open mind about our varied sexual natures as individuals. Some people find happiness in sex, often times in strange and peculiar ways, but really they're just looking for a good time. Sexual lust is one of our oldest and strongest drives, and how we deal with them is ultimately down to each individual.

A wonderful song by the Eurthymics captures the essence of it. The lyrics are wonderfully simple:

Sweet dreams are made of this
Who am I to disagree?
I travel the world
And the seven seas,
Everybody's looking for something.

Some of them want to use you
Some of them want to get used by you
Some of them want to abuse you
Some of them want to be abused.

Hold your head up
Keep your head up, movin' on

I really think that emotionally, I'm not quite there yet. I've been told that I have an impoverished sense of emotions. Not to stereotype or pigeonhole myself here; but, I've never felt the love from another woman other than my mother. However, I do love my mother it's just unconditional and safe.

Is it fear here speaking? Or am I really emotionally kind off in the left field?

Yes, you talk about love. How does it work? I know about reciprocity and empathy. I don't feel many emotions possibly due to the meds I take.

But, I'll harp on the issue of emotional maturity. It seems (as in the lyrics of that song), that there's some pragmatic function to be used or to use another.

The issue goes into my diagnosis as a schizophrenic at 17. I've read cases that people who have schizophrenia are stuck in development or something like that. The rational thing to think is it is because of the devastating psychosis that reoccurs with the diagnosis. Yet, almost ALL if not ALL mind EXPANDING drugs are psychosis-inducing. There's no other way to put it than disagree with the idea that schizophrenics are emotionally immature DUE to psychosis. So, it's most likely not due to psychosis but, some other alterations in the development of the prefrontal cortex and other areas of the brain during early adolescence and adulthood. Some areas reach maturity at 25.

I'm not going to sugar coat it, I don't like my emotions, I am afraid of opening up to a woman; but, want to feel like a man whilst laying beside her (not necessarily having sex).

So, here are the key points that should be noted for future reference:

I am emotionally immature and possibly impoverished due to schizophrenia.
I don't like my emotions. (Huge issue)


How do you deal with someone who is emotionally immature and (fear) from opening up?

The issue goes quite deep, so if you don't mind here's my manifesto.

My father was cold, ruthless, and showed little to no emotions. Ok, I'll save you all the psychobabble and go straight to the gist. The gist is that I have trouble displaying affection, emotional attachment, and love other than that from my mother.

This is in part biological (schizophrenia), and psychological (put simply, having a con-man as a father figure).

Yet, most of my reasoning skills are somewhat intact. It's just the emotions that I don't know how to deal with.

How does it work? — Wallows

It can work on many levels. Sometimes it's familiarity, sometimes is pheromones. It can be learned, it can be innate, it can fade and it can be forgotten (or even invert). I'm no guru, so remember to take this with a grain of salt.

How do you deal with someone who is emotionally immature and (fear) from opening up? — Wallows

It depends on what you mean by "deal". If was their supervisor I would try to be firm, but fair, and more importantly, consistent. As a confidant I would just listen, and as a friend I would try to keep them from waxing too immature.

Yet, most of my reasoning skills are somewhat intact. It's just the emotions that I don't know how to deal with. — Wallows

I was very immature as a child, and with very high emotional sensitivity, so I might somewhat relate.

One blow that I remember dealing with was when I finally realized just how irritating I could be to the people around me (I was the clown who ran out of material, and a close friend cold-heartedly stated as much). I had no choice but to start examining myself and checking my emotions. I was emotional, to be sure, and learning to overcome and control them in part took allowing myself to feel and express them. Feeling and expressing emotions gives us the benefit of experience, and in the future it helps us to recognize and check them when they become unproductive.

Emotions are like subconscious signals that try to anticipate the world around us and keep us safe, but they can easily be misleading, and they can benefit from cultivation.

Growing into our emotions takes a lifetime. My basic advice is to be kind, be reflective, and challenge yourself to expand.

One blow that I remember dealing with was when I finally realized just how irritating I could be to the people around me (I was the clown who ran out of material, and a close friend cold-heartedly stated as much). I — VagabondSpectre

Oh, I can relate. I always assumed the double role of teachers pet (I just had the smarts to know what they wanted from a student effortlessly) and class clown.

Good times.

But the clown part kind of stuck with me and I learned that at work clowns are not tolerated, they tend to gossip a lot and are poor performers despite their performances.

Grows old after a while and you just become either happy or content or cynical.

Feeling and expressing emotions gives us the benefit of experience, and in the future it helps us to recognize and check them when they become unproductive. — VagabondSpectre

This is very difficult for me as a wishful Stoic. As a man, I almost feel as if it is wrong in some way.

This is very difficult for me as a wishful Stoic. As a man, I almost feel as if it is wrong in some way. — Wallows

The stoic who feels nothing is just a myth. The real skill of being stoic is not showing emotion even while you're experiencing it deeply. Emotions themselves aren't necessarily a problem, it's how they can make us behave that really gets us into lasting trouble. By not showing any signs of emotion, stoics therefore control the effects that their emotions have upon their behavior (and therefore them), which is why it can work!

By not showing any signs of emotion, stoics, therefore, control the effects that their emotions have upon their behavior (and therefore them), which is why it can work! — VagabondSpectre

Isn't that a very difficult way to the top of the mountain? I mean, you seem to get the idea that control and depression go together like horse and carriage, and based on my 18 years of dealing with personal depression.

Isn't that a very difficult way to the top of the mountain? — Wallows

There are no short cuts. We're not born with the hooves, nor the lung capacity for getting to the top, and only grit and endurance can get us there in the end.

But seeking to be stoic is just one method of cajoling emotions into order; there are as many approaches as there are degrees in a circle. Meditation, embracing certain theologies, therapy, or adventure seeking are also viable methods of positive self-cultivation. They all have their challenges, and their payoffs (and their weaknesses), but in general you can only ever get as much out of it as you put into it.

Broadly this is philosophy as a solo sport: a game of self-reflection, where we must figure it out for ourselves, or not at all; we cannot be told.

I think that avoiding depression and pursuing delight, contentment, and happiness are necessary for having a life worth living (worth it to you), so ultimately whatever effective (and ethical) strategy you can devise for cultivating your own happiness is by extension of high or ultimate importance. "Know thyself" is a powerful piece of advice because when we truly know ourselves, we much more coherently love ourselves (and if we don't like what we see, the knowing also enables the changing).

Self improvement takes courage (sometimes finding courage is in an of itself an improvement),because we can only grow when we challenge ourselves. In my experience, it's almost always worth it in the end. There's some kind of irony in the fact that in order to progress and feel good about ourselves, we almost invariably have to suffer through some kind of ordeal to earn it....
*Shakes fist angrily at Darwin*

8k — Wallows

Hope I quoted you correctly.
I'm sorry I'm at the beginning of this but I'm not sure what you're envious about exactly. Is it the fact that women in porn seem to be having fun in porn videos? Cause I don't think they are. I don't think there's anything wrong with them, they consider themselves good at something and somebody is willing to pay them for that which is even better for them. Sure, they expose themselves; at the end of the day they are just exhibitioners but I don't see anything wrong about that either, I mean, we all expose ourselves to some extent: even being in this forum and posting information about us has some risks attached.

Ok, just for the record, Wallows, my intention was to quote the whole text you wrote at the beginning, not just the 8k. Sorry about that, I'm such a noob in here.

I'm sorry I'm at the beginning of this but I'm not sure what you're envious about exactly. Is it the fact that women in porn seem to be having fun in porn videos? — Alan

I don't know how to psychologize this issue. There really isn't much room to rationalize such a basic urge that is sex. I suppose it has to do with feeling depressed and impotent on my end. Namely, to emphasize the depression part, porn is filled with vigor, pleasure, or life. All that ooh'ing and ahh'ing kinda highlight that. So, maybe envy is a secondary more rational response to the primal urge to feel alive. I don't know. Can go both ways I suppose.

Sex really isn't that big of a deal and I think you are just putting it on a pedestal

Sex really isn't that big of a deal and I think you are just putting it on a pedestal — Maw

Thanks. Its normal and my lack of it is causing me distress. I'm pretty indifferent towards the issue despite it being probably the most intrinsic urge of human beings.