Oooo wweee, you just introduced the aesthetic mode of existence. — Merkwurdichliebe
Do you honestly believe the Creator of the universe, the ongoing source for all reality has a problem with informing everyone He exists? Of course not. I sin, and when I do I don't think about God but I know God still exists because I'm a rational featherless biped. — Daniel Cox
The stories are not 'invented'. They are, by the implicit argument of theism, given by revelation. Instead of insisting they are invented you should be debating whether religion is inspired by revelation. — EnPassant
there's no way to distinguish between your belief and a delusion — S
However, there is a way for EnPassant to distinguish between his faith and his belief, and that makes all the difference. — Merkwurdichliebe
That might be true if by 'knowing' you mean abstractly knowing. But God is not an abstraction. You don't seem to be talking about God here, you seem to be talking about abstract knowledge of God.In the atheist sense, knowing God exists, is as ridiculous as knowing your ethical ethical principles exist. — Merkwurdichliebe
Senses don't lie and are never wrong. They simply do what they are designed to do. Your interpretation of the information can be wrong. In other words we can rationally lie to ourselves about, or misinterpret, what our sensory experience means.In the words of the Greek rationalists, your senses can be great liars. — Ricardoc
If I had a thought this morning I know I had the thought but can I prove it?Yes, true. And he probably has reasonable ground for his belief, just no positive proof. Have you two settled the question of whether or not you can know something and not be able to prove it? — Merkwurdichliebe
Yes, true. And he probably has reasonable ground for his belief, just no positive proof. Have you two settled the question of whether or not you can know something and not be able to prove it? — Merkwurdichliebe
Merkwurdichliebe
477
↪Frank Apisa
In the atheist sense, knowing God exists is as ridiculous as knowing your ethical principles exist. Even if you attempted to prove you held to certain ethical principles, you would need to be eternally tested by every possible moral choice, and you would never prove anything. — Merkwurdichliebe
"Your clan"? Who's that? — Merkwurdichliebe
And you want reasonable ground as evidence, of course you are asking for proof. — Merkwurdichliebe
Your belief is on the same footing as a delusion if there's no way to distinguish between your belief and a delusion. — S
Are you interested in epistemology at all? — S
That might be true if by 'knowing' you mean abstractly knowing. But God is not an abstraction. You don't seem to be talking about God here, you seem to be talking about abstract knowledge of God. — EnPassant
I am deviating (for the nonce) from that here. I expect more of someone who would post on a board dedicated to philosophy.
We'll see. Don't want to rush to judgement.
Going to prod and poke...and see what jumps out. — Frank Apisa
"Your clan"? Who's that?
— Merkwurdichliebe
I come from a clan of ninjas who fix typos with lightning speed. You must be from a rival clan. We are mortal enemies. — S
Ummm...you seem to be talking about a particular God here.
I'd like to know more about it.
Could you put a bit of "flesh", so to speak, on it. — Frank Apisa
EnPassant
119
Ummm...you seem to be talking about a particular God here.
I'd like to know more about it.
Could you put a bit of "flesh", so to speak, on it. — Frank Apisa
Ok, you asked, but as I say I don't want to get into a God debate. Consider this as food for thought.
I someone says 'I am', superficially, that is the personality or ego speaking: I am a great fellow, I am a celebrity, I am such a cool guy etc.
But if we can truly say 'I am' in the most meaningful sense of the word, that 'I am' is God because if we say this truly it is being itself speaking. And God is being. — EnPassant
Only from some people's point of view. Another theist would not put it on that footing. — EnPassant
I put an idea to the thread earlier. What do you think of the difference between reality and images of reality (or knowledge). Suppose you have x^2 over a given range. That produces a range of values, even an infinite range. Now, you can draw a graph x^2 on a piece of paper. What is the difference between the graph and the idea of x^2? The difference is that the idea is abstract knowledge, the graph is a physical image of the idea. But they look like entirely different things; one is ink and paper, the other is in the mind.
Why is it that 2D space can receive and display an idea? If it is possible for 2D space to manifest, accurately, a mathematical concept there must be some natural 'common reality' between space and math. If there were not natural similarity space could not display the graph.
What then is this common reality between mind and space? — EnPassant
I think we're in agreement, just not about "non-atheist." — Daniel Cox
It is a matter of reason. Can you reasonably distinguish your belief from a delusion? If not, then you fail at philosophy. — S
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