Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!
This is based on the art of subjective acceptance (partial self-blindness) of which we humans are masters of. — BrianW
Isn't that what stage magicians do? I thought this was common knowledge. — TheMadFool
BrianW
723
Isn't that what stage magicians do? I thought this was common knowledge. — TheMadFool
But how many people believe in that kind of 'magic'. To most people it's always a setup especially considering the other stuff that accompany such 'magic'. Anyway, one of my points is that, if humans are natural, then they cannot perform supernatural activities. Is there anything perceived by humans that is actually beyond the purview of nature? And, by what means would those people have acquired such information considering they are bound within the limits of the laws of nature?
My point is to challenge human belief because it seems we often misrepresent ourselves when we represent our beliefs. — BrianW
I do not do "believing." — Frank Apisa
Or they're just acceptance of experience.Mostly, our "beliefs" are nothing but blind guesses which we call "beliefs" so that we do not have to acknowledge they are merely guesses. — Frank Apisa
I think that the issue arises from an unnecessary segregation of things in to the categories of 'scientific' and 'magical'. A segregation that exploits the herd instinct.So, what do you think? — BrianW
How close is thought to belief? — Merkwurdichliebe
My hypothesis would be that thought approaches belief as its resultant outcome approaches certainty. — BrianW
BrianW
724
I do not do "believing." — Frank Apisa
Don't you have any convictions, however simple or complex they are? — BrianW
Don't you have a frame of reference for your information, perception, conception, knowledge and understanding?
The reason I ask is because even before we assert belief in the fantastic and preposterous, there is also a level of belief that is decent and natural in its application. What I'm saying is that, belief isn't necessarily something to do away with, rather it should be worked upon the way we would any other part of our faculty of consciousness.
Shamshir
173
Mostly, our "beliefs" are nothing but blind guesses which we call "beliefs" so that we do not have to acknowledge they are merely guesses. — Frank Apisa
Or they're just acceptance of experience. — Shamshir
I do not disguise those things by calling them my "beliefs." — Frank Apisa
For instance, if one says, "I 'believe' (in) God"...is one not actually just saying, "It is my guess that at least one god exists in the REALITY of existence?"
If one says, "I believe there are no gods"...is one not actually just saying, "It is my guess that no gods exist in the REALITY of existence?" — Frank Apisa
Or we can just stick to beliefs.Could be.
If they are guesses...we should call them guesses.
If they are "acceptance of experience"...we should call them "acceptance of experience."
Just my opinion. — Frank Apisa
Mine would be that belief is the power of thought to express infinite possibility. — Merkwurdichliebe
He has a friend who claims to be able to transcribe normal speech into text. — BrianW
BrianW
735
I do not disguise those things by calling them my "beliefs." — Frank Apisa
What is belief other than those convictions and frames of reference in consciousness?
For instance, if one says, "I 'believe' (in) God"...is one not actually just saying, "It is my guess that at least one god exists in the REALITY of existence?"
If one says, "I believe there are no gods"...is one not actually just saying, "It is my guess that no gods exist in the REALITY of existence?" — Frank Apisa
Belief is not absolute. Human understanding is not perfect therefore their beliefs cannot be measured by the absolute standard of truth. Our convictions can fail us; our frames of reference can be inadequate - yet they distinctly retain those identities and applications. That's why I said they should be worked on just as we work on scientific knowledge or any other aspect of our faculty of consciousness. — BrianW
Shamshir
176
Could be.
If they are guesses...we should call them guesses.
If they are "acceptance of experience"...we should call them "acceptance of experience."
Just my opinion. — Frank Apisa
Or we can just stick to beliefs.
As what even is a belief? A thought you are confident in.
The thought that you don't believe, is ironically a belief.
All our knowledge, guesses, experience - are also beliefs of sorts.
And I don't see why you attest that beliefs are blind guesses and leave yourself so distraught over it.
Because when you say "I DO NOT DO BELIEVING", all you're saying is "GUESSES AREN'T ENOUGH FOR ME"; which is fine. — Shamshir
Relativist
610
The issue is that our evaluations are colored by our background beliefs. Established beliefs are not easily overturned. This is largely because our beliefs tend ti be interrelated. It is not just that I hold the belief "mindreading is probably physically impossible", as an isolated proposition. Rather, in mycase, my belief in that proposition relates to my beliefs about the nature of minds. For example, memories seem to be patterns in the neural networks of the brain. Even if the potentials of neurons in another's brain could be measured, these would not carry meaning.
Others may believe mindreading is impossible because 1. they can't do it. & 2. it has never been confirmed that anyone can do it. & 3. When it has been investigated, it has been shown to be a trick.
Therefore a single instance of a person with this alleged power is insufficient to negate the prior belief. However, I would suggest that if the alleged mindreader were to read my mind, that would be entirely different. That could be convincing.
I don't know if this was your intent, but this is similar to discussions I've had with Christians about miracles. I believe it highly unlikely that miracles (violations of the laws of nature) occur. No allegged miracle has been objectively confirmed, and many have been shown to be false, and many believers have been shown to have been duped. On the other hand, if I were to personally experience an unequivocal miracle, I could change my mind. — Relativist
Brian...what do I have to do to spell this out for you? — Frank Apisa
As previously discussed. I use the terminology different than you. Note how I worded my belief: "mindreading is probably physically impossible".Some people guess mindreading is possible; some guess it is not possible.
Both are guessing.
Gotta wonder why they don't just call it guessing...rather than calling it a "belief." — Frank Apisa
Pick up a good book on epistemology, and see if there's something that can't be covered using the common words. Or just ask what I mean in a given instance.Gotta wonder why they don't just call it guessing...rather than calling it a "belief." — Frank Apisa
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