You have said this a number of times, in different ways. You always refer to consciousness as a passive thing. Consciousness is "being in the state of having experiences", as you say. But surely there is an active aspect to this too? Empirical observation confirms that we also initiate or create experiences, for ourselves and for others. As conscious entities, we experience stuff, and we interact with the world so as to create experiences too, don't we? — Pattern-chaser
So it's the brain that controls the body, in your world? Does the (immaterial) mind have no place in your scheme? Forget for a moment that the 'conscious mind' is part of the mind, and consider the mind as a whole. Every criticism you have levelled at consciousness seems also to apply to the mind as a whole. So, is the human mind just a figment, a frippery? After all, according to you it can do nothing...? — Pattern-chaser
The mind is a production of the brain. — Unseen
All the things you are attributing to consciousness are done by the brain in an activity we can all pre-conscious mind [?] (a mind behind the mind we experience). There appears to be no need for a conscious mind. — Unseen
Empirical observation confirms that we also initiate or create experiences, for ourselves and for others. As conscious entities, we experience stuff, and we interact with the world so as to create experiences too, don't we? — Pattern-chaser
I believe this is possible, given our current knowledge, but I'm pretty sure that your conclusion has not yet been reached by the scientists working on it. — Pattern-chaser
I wonder if you have gathered, from the article you read, that all actions taken by the mind are taken by the rest-of-the-mind, leaving the conscious mind as a passive observer? — Pattern-chaser
I wonder if you have gathered, from the article you read, that all actions taken by the mind are taken by the rest-of-the-mind, leaving the conscious mind as a passive observer? — Pattern-chaser
I'll go further. It IS gratuitous to have experiences. Our preconscious mind could function without the conscious one. In fact, it does so often. You do a long day of driving, mostly thinking of whatever's going on in your life as you do so. By the time you reach your destination, you got there making, really, very few decisions on a conscious level. — Unseen
I wonder if you have gathered, from the article you read, that all actions taken by the mind are taken by the rest-of-the-mind, leaving the conscious mind as a passive observer? — Pattern-chaser
Well, that is pretty much my position. The real action goes on whether like it or know it or not, but we only find out about some of it. Since it's all going on before we find out about it, it's beyond our conscious control, so the conscious experiences we have are just evidence of what's going on in our mind, and we have no way to exert control. Humans, cats and dogs, and other mammals and higher life forms could live out their entire lives, acting in exactly the same ways, and all the while experiencing nothing at all. Like plants. — Unseen
Experience itself, or participation in events, is necessary for the physical universe to exist. But is it necessary to be aware that we are having experiences? I think that depends on how much experience we have with an experience. — Possibility
I'll stop you right there. The universe literally would not exist without someone to perceive it. That is the position known as idealism (vs. materialism), the view that nothing exists apart from mind. Is that really your view? Very few philosophers hold that position anymore. — Unseen
It depends on how you think consciousness evolved from non-living matter to plants and animals to humans. — Possibility
Because alteration of an organism's nervous system predictably affects its consciousness. — Hanover
It does, but what follows from that? That's perfectly consistent with the idea that alteration in the functioning of a plant, or a rock, or a cell, or a plastic bottle, or whatever, likewise affects its consciousness. — bert1
As I noted, the only reason I believe any object other than myself has consciousness is by observing its behavior. — Hanover
Presumably it is a product of biological evolution. — Relativist
As I noted, the only reason I believe any object other than myself has consciousness is by observing its behavior. Consciousness cannot be seen directly and the only consciousness I can actually experience is my own. I therefore have no reason to believe rocks have consciousness. — Hanover
It depends on how you think consciousness evolved from non-living matter to plants and animals to humans.
— Possibility
I don't think it evolved the way the eye evolved. I think it is a mutation that was never eliminated. The reason I believe this is that I see no need for consciousness in order to survive. Some of the most successful creatures on the planet, in terms of survival, are not conscious. Bacteria, the entire plant family. — Unseen
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