The consequence is that an idea/theory/practice is not considered unscientific because there are objective criteria that show that it is unscientific, but because some authority or majority have decided to label it as such, based on their own subjective desires. — leo
What do these people mean when they say that have "felt God". One doesn't feel, or otherwise observe, God directly, like one observes how other organisms behave in their environment, or rockets blasting off and landing on the Moon. We can all (believers and non believers alike) observe these things and verify that the theories about them are valid or not.Some people use the demarcation criterion that a scientific theory is a theory that can be verified through repeated observation by many different people, which they use to label as "unscientific" the theory that God exists, which in fact is already problematic because many people have claimed to have felt God repeatedly. But the bigger problem is that this criterion classifies as unscientific pretty much all theories that are considered scientific, for the simple reason that even if a theory has agreed with observations N times, there is no way to prove that it will agree the next time, there is no way to verify it. — leo
The whole idea that there can be objective criteria is way off base. Any criteria are going to be subjective. — Terrapin Station
It's simply a matter of whether there's some consensus about it or not. And there is a consensus about what's scientific or not — Terrapin Station
Also, obviously one does not have to care about the consensus, though it is true that the consensus has some socio-psychological impact that's more difficult to avoid. — Terrapin Station
If science was an objective enterprise, in the sense that a theory is accepted because it matches objective observations and not because it suits the desires or beliefs of some people, then we should be able to characterize that enterprise objectively. In saying that we can't characterize it objectively, you are agreeing that the objectivity of science is a myth. — leo
What do these people mean when they say that have "felt God". One doesn't feel, or otherwise observe, God directly, like one observes how other organisms behave in their environment, or rockets blasting off and landing on the Moon. We can all (believers and non believers alike) observe these things and verify that the theories about are valid or not.
Referring to God would be more like theorizing the existence of atoms or the Big Bang. We dont observe those things, we use them to explain what we do observe, and it has to be logically consistent and coherent. God has yet to be defined in any consistent way, like atoms have. Each person that claims to have felt God may not agree on what God entails except that it can be felt, but how is that useful? How can that be tested? — Harry Hindu
We're talking about the supposed objectivity of calling/considering one set of activities "science" and another set of activities "pseudo-science" (or whatever else we'd like to call it), right? — Terrapin Station
Indeed. So if it is subjective to call one set of activities "science" and not some other one, how could we arrive at the idea that the activities called "science" follow objective principles and are devoid of subjectivity? — leo
First, in the spirit of solving one thing at a time, does this mean that you agree that it wouldn't be possible to come up with objective demarcation criteria? — Terrapin Station
If you regard science as a method, rather than some collection of facts, then there isn't really a way to define a limit to its application. — ernestm
The issue is that attempts to make the description too exact wind up excluding things that are conventionally considered science. While trying to make it too fuzzy (but concretely stated, so that a robot could follow it, say), wind up including things that are conventionally not considered science. — Terrapin Station
science is typically concerned with objective events. What we're going to call something and why we're going to call it that are not objective events. — Terrapin Station
and plenty of theories involving subjective events that are deemed scientific. — leo
true, and to follow convention, that does define a demarcation between 'hard science' and 'soft science.' — ernestm
The point is basically that what counts as science is not defined objectively but through a consensus, and scientific consensus on whether a theory is worth considering is not based on objective criteria but on the subjective motivations and beliefs of influential individuals/groups, which leads theories to be abandoned/rejected/ignored while it would be potentially fruitful to explore them further, and one barrier to doing that is that the scientific consensus and their followers attack/ridicule/ostracize those who want to explore/believe theories that do not follow the consensus. — leo
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.