Two...I do not give a rat's ass what you venture to call it. — Frank Apisa
Merkwurdichliebe
1.1k
Two...I do not give a rat's ass what you venture to call it. — Frank Apisa
Oooweee...someone is testes. :yikes: — Merkwurdichliebe
Belief is necessary for knowledge. It's basic epistemology. — Hanover
Yeah, that is what I said. It is a guess. That is what a presupposition is. — Frank Apisa
Yeah, those two sentences are blind guesses - your own.I "believe" in God"...is nothing but a blind guess about the unknown REALITY.
I "believe" there are no gods...is nothing but a blind guess about the unknown REALITY. — Frank Apisa
tim wood
2.4k
Yeah, that is what I said. It is a guess. That is what a presupposition is. — Frank Apisa
No. They are not the same. A clue is in the words: "presupposition," "guess." If you spell them out you can see they are not the same words. If that's a problem, at least you can see that one is longer than the other, has more letters. I'll make it even more conspicuous. To a Christian, God is an absolute presupposition of his beliefs. His creed starts, "We believe..,". See that? Ab-so-lute pre-sup-po-si-tion. Way longer than "guess." And zero reason to confuse the two. — tim wood
Shamshir
281
I "believe" in God"...is nothing but a blind guess about the unknown REALITY.
I "believe" there are no gods...is nothing but a blind guess about the unknown REALITY. — Frank Apisa
Yeah, those two sentences are blind guesses - your own.
Anyone who hasn't seen their Great-great-grandfather, believes they have this unknown to them grandfather.
Are those people blindly guessing? — Shamshir
By the same logic anyone may KNOW there is a God.Anyone with a brain KNOWS they had a great, great grandfather. They KNOW they their great, great, grandfather also had a great, great grandfather. — Frank Apisa
Shamshir
282
Anyone with a brain KNOWS they had a great, great grandfather. They KNOW they their great, great, grandfather also had a great, great grandfather. — Frank Apisa
By the same logic anyone may KNOW there is a God. — Shamshir
Shamshir
283
No...they cannot. — Frank Apisa
Because? Both are unknown. — Shamshir
Both are unknown. There may or may not be a Great-great-grandfather.One is unknown. There may or may not be a GOD — Frank Apisa
And going back far enough, your progenitor did not only believe in God but was created by God.But every goddam person who has ever lived has had a father...which means everyone's father has had a father...which means everyone who has had a father has had a grandfather. And the grandfather has had a father...and that father has had a father...which means that every one has had a father, a grandfather, a great grandfather, and a great, great grandfather. — Frank Apisa
Shamshir
283
One is unknown. There may or may not be a GOD — Frank Apisa
Both are unknown. There may or may not be a Great-great-grandfather. — Shamshir
But every goddam person who has ever lived has had a father...which means everyone's father has had a father...which means everyone who has had a father has had a grandfather. And the grandfather has had a father...and that father has had a father...which means that every one has had a father, a grandfather, a great grandfather, and a great, great grandfather. — Frank Apisa
And going back far enough, your progenitor did not only believe in God but was created by God. — shamshir
Are you going to tell your progenitor he's wrong?
Go ahead. :yum:
Ok. There are things called presuppositions. Of those, some are so-called absolute presuppositions (APs). As such, they have nothing to do with guesses. They are not guesses. To confuse the two is just a lack of information/knowledge. But now you have that knowledge - you've been told. From this moment on your claim isn't mere ignorance, the condition of us all, but stupidity.It is a guess...a blind guess.
And "faith" is the absurd insistence that it is correct no matter what. — Frank Apisa
tim wood
2.4k
It is a guess...a blind guess.
And "faith" is the absurd insistence that it is correct no matter what. — Frank Apisa
Ok. There are things called presuppositions. Of those, some are so-called absolute presuppositions (APs). As such, they have nothing to do with guesses. They are not guesses. To confuse the two is just a lack of information/knowledge. But now you have that knowledge - you've been told. From this moment on your claim isn't mere ignorance, the condition of us all, but stupidity.
What presuppositions and absolute presuppositions are is just a little bit tricky because articulated, they're propositions, and as propositions they're not appearing as what they are (which is presuppositions), which leads to your kind of confusion. That is, a presupposition is something that is presupposed. An absolute presupposition is absolutely presupposed. For the purposes of this thread, this simply means that Christians don't ask if God exists. Period. Non-Christians certainly can, but their question goes to existence, which answer to - or speculation on - the question of existence is simply irrelevant to a Christian because it is always already a presupposition of his faith and thinking.
To be sure, Christians are perfectly capable of asking about, questioning, the existence of their Christian God, But to the degree that they're Christians who comprehend their religion, they know it's a no-sense question. To the degree they think the question is of any relevance, to that degree they're not Christian. By this understanding it should be clear that many people who call themselves Christians, aren't really Christians. Or they are, but seriously confused.
I assume this holds for other religions as well and not just Christianity.
As to presuppositions and absolute presuppositions, just stop and think for a moment how many are a part of your life and thinking even minute-by-minute. Most of them are so trivial they're hardly worth calling up and articulating. But if you work at it, You'll find more than you know what to do with.
A very readable exposition can be found in An Essay on Metaphysics, R. G., Collingwood. — tim wood
Shamshir
290
↪Frank Apisa
Better to live in a desert sandbox
than with a quarrelsome and nagging wife Frank.
Proverbs 21:19 :cool: — Shamshir
You are pathetic...and are unsuited for a philosophical discussion. — Frank Apisa
Fooloso4
506
You are pathetic...and are unsuited for a philosophical discussion. — Frank Apisa
I assume you fail to see the irony! Believing (or guessing) that repeating the same thing and petulantly crying "You are pathetic" is a suitable example of philosophical discussion. — Fooloso4
Fooloso4
507
↪Frank Apisa
Frank, it is because I actually have an interest in philosophical discussion that I am not going to sink to your level. You have dug yourself into a hole and with every effort to extricate yourself you sink lower and lower. It is not just your failure to understand what the term 'believe' means but your philosophical and emotional immaturity. Happy to do my part to make that evident to anyone here who is not already aware of it. — Fooloso4
Shamshir
292
↪Frank Apisa
Optimism! How adorable! I love it! Even at the end, you make me laugh. I'm lying. That wasn't funny at all. — Shamshir
Fooloso4
508
↪Frank Apisa
Frank you really are a child! — Fooloso4
Repeating the same thing over and over again, putting it in ALL CAPS, throwing tantrums and stomping your feet, none of it changes the vacuousness of your claim.
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