It seems you take the meaning of the word "weapon" very literally. I don't know if like me, you are an American citizen. If you are, I can't say I'm all that surprised by your stance.

Guns, knives, grenades... these tools are merely extensions. Humans are the true weapons when they are used.

As far as you hypothetically only being able to feel "annoyed" and being non-offendable, I envy the fair-weathered alloted conditions that at worst still have you consistently maintaining these reactions.

In my case, it's like I'm caught in a swarm of houseflies I can never outrun. Constant buzzing... constant non-lethal, debilitating noise.

Count your blessings.

I realize I never replied to you, sorry about that.

I agree that we have similar points of view, this is probably due to the fact that I have been through a lot as well because of others, a lot of injustice and suffering, and I too refuse to accept being treated that way, even though back when i was a kid I didn't really know how to defend myself psychologically. Those who haven't been through that wouldn't really understand.

If you don't consider yourself as sick, or crazy, and don't see the label "schizophrenic" as defining you then that's good, that diagnosis doesn't mean in any way that you are less worthy as a human being.

If you feel that the meds you are prescribed and your therapist help you, then me questioning your diagnosis of schizophrenia wasn't implying in any way that you should stop doing what helps you. And if you don't feel weighed down at all by the label of schizophrenia I don't really need to expand on why I think that the basis for making a diagnosis of schizophrenia is shaky from a philosophical standpoint.

But basically, feeling bad and having beliefs that contradict those of the psychiatrist are enough to be diagnosed as schizophrenic, and in your case the belief that you ought to get rid of the demon inhabiting your body (your sexual orientations) seems long gone. Then being homeless doesn't help one feel safe, and based on what you have experienced in the past it is not surprising that you constantly question the intentions of others. And on this point, if the therapist and the meds help you feel more relaxed and at peace then that's all that matters, the diagnosis of schizophrenia seems unnecessary. But again, if that label doesn't weigh you down then that doesn't matter anyway.

I see a great amount of effort on your part, THX1138 to rationalize your thoughts or paranoia into something rational and explicable.

I don't mean to come off as rude, condescending or patronizing; but, Leo's advice is misguided despite its appeal in your theorizing about past events. This doesn't only happen here. It's all over the internet also. Just that here it is disguised in the form of rational thought given the premise that we're all rational, justified by being here on a philosophy forum.

The typical response you would get just about anywhere else on the internet, where rational thought is encouraged would be something of the sort to seek professional advice. We don't really do that enough around here (which kind of makes this place special), and given that you have mentioned a fairly recent attempt on your own life I feel as though that advice is the best one can offer.

Best regards.

The typical response you would get just about anywhere else on the internet, where rational thought is encouraged would be something of the sort to seek professional advice. — Wallows

You seem to believe that professionals possess holy knowledge that only them can impart, and us plebeians cannot possibly analyze their thought processes in what leads them to make such or such diagnosis. I wouldn't call that stance rational.

Here are the criteria used by psychiatrists to make a diagnosis of schizophrenia: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519704/table/ch3.t22/

To sum it up, at least one of the following symptoms: delusions, hallucinations, disorganized speech.
And at least one of the following symptoms: grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior, negative symptoms (i.e. diminished emotional expression or avolition)

THX1138 doesn't have disorganized speech and hasn't mentioned having hallucinations. He thinks it is possible he might be targeted by some people, but he doesn't believe it fiercely against all evidence, he has some reason to think so, so that doesn't count as a delusion. From what he has told through this thread, there is currently no basis to diagnose him as schizophrenic, as he doesn't fit the criteria.

He did have a belief over 10 years ago that was forced into him by pastors and church members, which could count as a delusion, but he hasn't held it for a long time.

Your insistance that a diagnosis made by a professional is always right, and that as such we should dismiss everything that THX1138 says that goes against this diagnosis, is irrational, patronizing and stigmatizing. After all, why do you believe he received such a diagnosis? It may be the paranoia talking!

Lastly, THX1138 has mentioned that he consults a psychiatrist and a therapist already, which helps him feel supported, so your suggestion to seek professional advice shows how little attention you give to what he has to say, besides the fact he was given in your view a holy diagnosis that renders everything else irrelevant.

I suppose you know what's best for THX1138. So, have at it, suggesting to him that he really isn't schizophrenic, because you know what constitutes a "real" diagnosis of schizophrenia, and this is coming from someone formerly diagnosed as a schizophrenic.

He has felt understood and supported by me, and misunderstood by you. You're not focusing on what he says.

Besides, he has explicitly said that he doesn't feel stigmatized by the label of schizophrenic, so my characterization of his diagnosis has little relevance, but he does feel stigmatized by people who dismiss what he says as paranoia.

He is a human being, stop seeing him as just a diagnosis.

I do not insist that I know what's best for him, I'm just trying to genuinely support someone who is looking for support. Sometimes people simply need a listening ear from people who understand them, rather than be told that they are sick and need to consult a professional, which indeed is the sort of response he would usually get on the internet but not the one he needs.

I do not insist that I know what's best for him, I'm just trying to genuinely support someone who is looking for support. — leo

Well, I don't think projecting your own misgivings with the psychiatric diagnosis of schizophrenia, which you consider as stigmatizing is really helpful here. That's about it from my end.

Many people see psychiatric labels as stigmatizing, if he doesn't, great. However what I said about it could be helpful to him, in case he finds himself surrounded by people who won't listen to him and won't consider what he says seriously because he has been assigned that label, or who will treat him badly and pretend that they didn't, that it's the paranoia talking.

When you're in an environment where people don't have your best interest at heart, it is dangerous to tell you that if you're treated badly it's all in your head.

I think he needs most of all to feel in control of his life, and constantly telling him that he is paranoid and attempting to dismiss what I say to him as misguided while he has felt supported and understood by me, is what I find most unhelpful.

Support away!

I will. Despite the fact you were diagnosed as schizophrenic, he seems to find more common ground with me, that should tell you something.

Ooo, do go on!

Admit it leo. You have no idea what schizophrenia actually is...

I'll admit I do believe I have some form of hormonal/structural cerebral abnormality (my personal assessment when comparing my behavior to that of others in general). Is it specifically Schizophrenia, is that accurate? Has it always been able to be classified as such, will it always be? If the former is yes, then my misdiagnosis of conduct disorder, to ADD, to clinical depression, then OCD and to then finally arrive at Schizophrenia as the final diagnosis-destination doesn't exactly instill reassured confidence. But yes, some deviation in my mental process seems evident, sure.

If your primary concern toward me is authentically in regard of my mental wellbeing, Wallows, I appreciate your effort, even if I don't for the most part agree with how you perceive it and in turn, find is the most appropriate solution. It more seems to me that like the vast majority of individuals whom become aware of my condition coupled with my personal point of view, you are concerned more toward the safety of others moreso than my search for a spiritual enlightenment.

If your primary concern toward me is authentically in regard of my mental wellbeing, Wallows, I appreciate your effort, even if I don't for the most part agree with how your perceive it and in turn, find is the most appropriate solution. — THX1138

Well, just coming out clean. I lived in denial of my diagnosis for some 10 years. Taking my antipsychotic was a chore. But, finally coming to accept my diagnosis was a relief in many ways. Anyway, the internet is too full of armchair psychologists and psychiatrists. It's pretty hard to come to terms with such a profoundly (flawed) view of oneself, and when I see people asserting such nonsense that can't be assessed in a 10-minute dialogue legitimately, is when I cringe.

I realize I never replied to you, sorry about that.

I agree that we have similar points of view, this is probably due to the fact that I have been through a lot as well because of others, a lot of injustice and suffering, and I too refuse to accept being treated that way, even though back when i was a kid I didn't really know how to defend myself psychologically. Those who haven't been through that wouldn't really understand.

If you don't consider yourself as sick, or crazy, and don't see the label "schizophrenic" as defining you then that's good, that diagnosis doesn't mean in any way that you are less worthy as a human being.

If you feel that the meds you are prescribed and your therapist help you, then me questioning your diagnosis of schizophrenia wasn't implying in any way that you should stop doing what helps you. And if you don't feel weighed down at all by the label of schizophrenia I don't really need to expand on why I think that the basis for making a diagnosis of schizophrenia is shaky from a philosophical standpoint.

But basically, feeling bad and having beliefs that contradict those of the psychiatrist are enough to be diagnosed as schizophrenic, and in your case the belief that you ought to get rid of the demon inhabiting your body (your sexual orientations) seems long gone. Then being homeless doesn't help one feel safe, and based on what you have experienced in the past it is not surprising that you constantly question the intentions of others. And on this point, if the therapist and the meds help you feel more relaxed and at peace then that's all that matters, the diagnosis of schizophrenia seems unnecessary. But again, if that label doesn't weigh you down then that doesn't matter anyway. — leo

Truthfully, I believe the reality of my situation is a bit of both. It's almost like the "Which came first, the egg, or, the chicken?" paradox. I have been handed over to psychiatrists since I was in kindergarten because I was very energetic, rambunctious and differed from my other classmates in a school setting. My single parent, only child mom took advantage of the handout, ran with it and milked it for all it's worth (SSI, food stamps, government housing, etc.) I've been diagnosed as one thing or the other ever since, treated differently by classmates, teachers and family.

Was I destined to be Schizophrenic, or was I conditioned to be? Maybe both? Maybe mental illness was a genetic predisposition but could have be reduced in exacerbation by better nurturing and a more constructive approach?

I'm "a soon to be 31 year old homeless man living in the woods "whining" about why it's so difficult for me to be in a social setting boo-hoo-hoo, who just wants to be felt sorry for."

... that's it? That's all I am? It's really that simple and so confidently factorable?

I don't accept that. I'm not sorry to say that seems like a cop out for my mom, my educators and family. A nice convincent pink slip of an allowance. Sorry, but I do feel cheated, and now I don't know what to make of anything.

Who knew it could be so damn difficult to be loved and supported, instead of tolerated (at best), and constantly written off. It's whatever man, as usual, I'm of course supposed to be the source for cause of being treated like a dread and liability.

That doesn't seem right to me, no matter how I think it over.

Well, just coming out clean. I lived in denial of my diagnosis for some 10 years. Taking my antipsychotic was a chore. But, finally coming to accept my diagnosis was a relief in many ways. Anyway, the internet is too full of armchair psychologists and psychiatrists. It's pretty hard to come to terms with such a profoundly (flawed) view of oneself, and when I see people asserting such nonsense that can't be assessed in a 10-minute dialogue legitimately, is when I cringe. — Wallows

I'm not in denial of being schizophrenic, moreover, mentally ill. But, you've gotta be aware that being considered mentally ill (to whatever degree, even when accurate to an extent) can leave certain individuals open to others' excuses of prejudice and accusations. It's no life to go on always constantly being the individual others collectively turn into a carnie, including cops.

I struggle with henious thoughts. It seems they believe it's just a matter of time. No unringing the bell, no way to have them dismiss their "spidey-sense" toward me and leave open any condition in which to sensibly be able to re-acclimate in the open world anywhere I go. Leave the country? I know Spanish, maybe I should just get out of here. Somewhere people are too busy with their own issues and economy to go about behaving like smug upper-handed douchebags whom sadistically enjoy the luxury of contemplating my pathetic existence while they're spieling over Mai Tais.

I'm thoroughly fed up. People act like I'm on America's Most Wanted. Honestly, I think it might as well be illegal to be both dull and troubled in this masters of the universe setting.

I'm thoroughly fed up. People act like I'm on America's Most Wanted. Honestly, I think it might as well be illegal to be both dull and troubled in this masters of the universe setting. — THX1138

The problem doesn't lie with what happens to you, but what you do with it.

And in your own words:

I don't know what to make of anything. — THX1138

Take a breather. Your own overassessments are what's going to cause you to snap, not some mook who thinks lesser of you.
The responsibility for the rescue of the drowning, is before all else - the drowning's.

Venting is my breather. I just want to get out of here. Thankfully, I've maintained enough self control not to be a criminal (for all that's worth). I can leave, probably will even after having much time to consider it. It'll take me at least two years to get ready anyway. If I still feel the same way by then, that's all the oxygen rich meditation I'll need to know I'm making a much considered decision.

It will pass.
Don't feed the fire and it will pass faster.
Don't just vent your problems, go do something that actually makes you happy.

It will pass.
Don't feed the fire and it will pass faster.
Don't just vent your problems, go do something that actually makes you happy. — Shamshir

I wish that were true. I'm just talking on a forum concerning philosophy. Outside of this environment, I feed no fires. I hardly ever leave my little wooded site, other than to get food. I stay out of others' way. I feel so drained though. I'll get by, I always manage to.

I have no business deeming the ways of society, I guess. I'm too compromised. All I want is tranquility. Let people procreate mindlessly and bring children into the world some'll ultimately end up neglecting and/or abusing. Someone like me is just the resin left over from that poverty and ill equipped parentage.

So it seems I'm a pedophile now. I've also been implicated as a rapist (though I did force falacio on an ex-boyfriend seven and a half years ago; I reached out to him, he's since accepted my forgiveness for what I subjected him to that night). If that weren't bad enough, I had an unhealthy relationship with a developmentally disabled man in his early 50's who wanted to get into S&M with me when we first met. Although it was the intention, I still consider what I did to him abuse, a way of excusing beating him for the anger I had repressed over the years, so, I guess that makes me a physical and psychological abuser as well (I should have known better than to go along with someone so helpless; like my ex-boyfriend, this man has also forgiven me. We both realized I couldn't handle being with him and that we were incompatible). I don't really want to be any of these things. I just want to feel something good every now and then. I've abstained and do not interact with other gay guys anymore. They seem to be very cause driven nowadays and see me as some local equivalent Harvey Weinstein. I'm not a serial rapist and have never molested a child.

As far as my anti-social personality, what's to be expected from the kind of life experiences I've gone through? I'm tapped out, constant degradation and put downs have taken their toll on me. I just don't have it in me to trust many people with more than my groceries or a bit of anonymous advice.

I wish that were true. I'm just talking on a forum concerning philosophy. Outside of this environment, I feed no fires. I hardly ever leave my little wooded site, other than to get food. I stay out of others' way. I feel so drained though. I'll get by, I always manage to. — THX1138

It is true. You feed the fire, but the fire isn't external from you, to search for it in a forum or other people. It's in you, right in the middle of your mindset.
I told you, stop paying your problems so much attention - that's not going to make them go away faster.
Do something good for yourself instead of maintaining a self-deprecating stagnation.

I just want to feel something good every now and then. — THX1138

Then do that. Don't just want it, do it.

As far as my anti-social personality, what's to be expected from the kind of life experiences I've gone through? I'm tapped out, constant degradation and put downs have taken their toll on me. I just don't have it in me to trust many people with more than my groceries or a bit of anonymous advice. — THX1138

The problem doesn't lie with what happens to you, but what you do with it. — Shamshir

What's to be expected when my friend, lost his legs and acquired lung cancer?
Well, he decided he was going to climb up Everest without an oxygen bottle, and he did.

What about Vinny Paz who broke his neck? Did he stop boxing?

The final call lies with you - you can either make it or break it.

Admit it leo. You have no idea what schizophrenia actually is... — Wallows

Sure I do Wallows, here are the criteria again, just need to know the meaning of the words mentioned https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519704/table/ch3.t22/

A psychiatrist doesn't know better what schizophrenia is, they just know who to lump into the schizophrenia box by applying the criteria, and who to lump into some other box by applying some other criteria.

Again, feeling bad and having delusions is enough to be labeled as schizophrenic. Now what is a delusion? A belief contradicted by reality. But who gets to decide what reality is? If you have philosophized some, you would know that people and social consensus play a great part in defining reality. So, fundamentally, if you feel bad and you have beliefs that do not follow the consensus (and as a result you behave in ways that do not follow the consensus), you're labeled as schizophrenic.

As to why coming to accept your diagnosis was a relief to you, I would say some of the reasons are likely that you came to agree with some authority you were previously in conflict with for not accepting what they told you, and that you put down your defenses and agreed to let people help you, but I don't know your story so there are probably reasons I don't know about that pertain to your particular case.

A psychiatrist doesn't know better what schizophrenia is, they just know who to lump into the schizophrenia box by applying the criteria, and who to lump into some other box by applying some other criteria. — leo

Are you serious? You must have some simplified view of opening up the DSM-5 and checking how many reported symptoms to fall into some category of mental illness, right?

Again, feeling bad and having delusions is enough to be labeled as schizophrenic. Now what is a delusion? A belief contradicted by reality. But who gets to decide what reality is? If you have philosophized some, you would know that people and social consensus play a great part in defining reality. — leo

Ok, here's the brief schtick. Schizophrenia isn't only composed of delusions. There are phases in the life of a schizophrenic. Such as prodromal periods, frank psychosis, and eventually a persistent struggle to form an identity. Now, tell me how any of these phases of the illness can be discerned online in a quick manner, baffles my mind...

So, fundamentally, if you feel bad and you have beliefs that do not follow the consensus (and as a result you behave in ways that do not follow the consensus), you're labeled as schizophrenic. — leo

This simply does not follow and I don't even know what you are trying to say here.

As to why coming to accept your diagnosis was a relief to you, I would say some of the reasons are likely that you came to agree with some authority you were previously in conflict with for not accepting what they told you, and that you put down your defenses and agreed to let people help you, but I don't know your story so there are probably reasons I don't know about that pertain to your particular case. — leo

OK, quick psychology 101... Schizophrenics are notoriously difficult to treat. They have their own theories about how their unstable view of the world "really" functions; be it the Illuminati, alien lizards, or their neighbor eavesdropping on their phone and internet. Shit like this is REALLY hard to treat since they seem life-threatening to the person experiencing these thoughts or delusions.

Now even deeper, a schizophrenic's identity is constantly changing due to their fluctuating existence. Perhaps, the singular best thing for the prognosis of a schizophrenic (apart from taking medication) is to accept their disabled identity and work from there.

Here's an elegant picture of the struggle and strife of identity formation for a schizophrenic:



In my view, most get stuck on phase "struggling for control" as long as there is a profound dissonance with the perceived stigma of the diagnosis, which tragically is reaffirmed by many people who have no idea what schizophrenia actually is.

Recognising that one has mental health issues of any sorts sounds like an important first step, but maybe very hard to take. I am coming to recognise that I have a few.

I also have to accept that I musrt give up posting on the internet altogether. So adios.

Let's say I can accept being Schizophrenic. To be honest, I can. I certainly accept I'm mentally ill in some form, just always questioned if Schizophrenia accurately identified my particular condition.

Alright, I'm hereby knighted Don Quixote, fighter of windmills.

Now what? Does being identified as Schizophrenic mean I deserve help? Why? Am I a good enough person to be helped? I struggle with henious thoughts. Does anyone really want to help someone like that out? To what end?

I have my just desserts. I'm Schizophrenic because my body's inability to regulate it's cerebral hormonal production is unbalanced and my brain doesn't have sufficient gray matter to reach a potential that can override my affliction. If I were at least more decent or talented, I'd deserve to be reached out to, to be aided. I'm not though. I have trouble being In most work environments. I'm not even cut out to be a piece of sh** who at least has a commendable work ethic.

In a cosmic way, my fate is fitting, wouldn't you say?

I also have to accept that I musrt give up posting on the internet altogether. So adios. — Kippo

Here is a perfect example. Now, believe it or not Wallow, the common elements between Kippo' s post and the post I made right after were not influenced from Kippo's post to my own, as the time stamp would suggest. I was in the middle of writing my responding post when Kippo posted his/her response while mine was underway. Now Kippo, I'm not saying I know you have insight on my activities, cyber, physical local or otherwise, but, my paranoia is urging me to accept you have at least some cyber knowledge of my ongoings, since the coincidence is too convienent. I also get the impression you are both patronizing me and gas lighting me in doing this.

I'll lay out how my own sense of morality (in consideration and relation to being dwarfed by the moral of others not receiving my stance neutrally):

What I do accept:

• I am a non-offending pedophile (no statutory rape required to have an inherent attraction to sex involving minors, though admission as opposed to denial and suppression means forever being ousted, even if one decides to not embrace and rationalize their inclination after copping up to it; I of course have decided to not treat my self discovery in this much more sympathetic way.)

• I am a non-serial rapist (it only takes once)

• I am a domestic abuser -- both physical and psychological (the physical abuse went on for two months under the guise of "S&M", the psychological lasted for three years; I believe my victim allowed for this because he is developmentally delayed and also because he like myself was raises in an impoverished environment that happen to permit this kind of abuse, which he has now normalized and subconciously seeks out.)

• I am an animal abuser (both physical and sexusl -- non-serial with the exception of one cat -- mostly during my childhood and adolescence; isolated incidents in adulthood that I can count off one hand.)

The consequences I agree are fitting:

• non-treatment for my mental illness, especially meds that would help with my sleep pattern and anxiety (I don't deserve this.)

• being homeless (no one should have to reside with me. Why put anyone in this position?)

• being looked into and reported to individuals in the community that have the misfortune of having to put up with my me being approximated amongst them (I tried resisting this before and was in denial of this stipulation; I get why I deserve it now.

• having said individuals ridicule and mock the aspects of my decided upon "mores" as a why of "weed control" in the absorbent garden that is community.

• not owning pets.

The allowances that I feel my self control can still afford me:

• communing with others (like certain members of this forum) whom are willing to hear me out and contemplate my situation (I don't accept that I should altogether cease communicating with others, I believe I've been a good enough boy to at least still be spared that privilege, especially since I'm being upfront here.)

• the freedom to be in public (all the situations in which I raped or abused -- with the exception of animals -- were in a context of mutual relationship or some established romance; I've never just plucked the first person I see that I become attracted to and take 'em right then and there.)

• the freedom to relocate.

There's nothing more that I can say here given those statements. I suggest addressing them honestly with your county psychiatrist.

Still, I hope you get a home or abode to stay in given the unfortunate predicament.

There's nothing more that I can say here given those statements. I suggest addressing them honestly with your county psychiatrist.

Still, I hope you get a home or abode to stay in given the unfortunate predicament. — Wallows

It's well deserved. Sure though, I can always get on meds. They won't prescribe me anything for my anxiety anyway. I'll probably merit all the side effects that the rest of my body will be prone to for my brain's inadequacy -- digestive problems, tumors, kidney failure, brittle bones, shakey hands -- all that jazz.