One must confront these thoughts, instead of attempting to banish or avoid them through medication or otherwise.

Spend time in contemplation, or even meditation. I do not know the severity of your disability, but taking walks outdoors could be an option. If your disability prevents you from taking walks, I would recommend sitting oneself in the outdoors with nothing else to do but to think.

A somewhat related question, do you spend a lot of time behind a computer? Overstimulation can cause all sorts of psychological (and eventually physical) ailments, from anxiety to depression, and can worsen these symptoms in those who already suffer from them.

Also, I can recommend taking cold showers, preferably first thing in the morning.

A somewhat related question, do you spend a lot of time behind a computer? — Tzeentch

Yes, pretty much. Although, I have found this to be an issue as of late. Namely, the retardation of identity formation enhanced through too much online presence.

Then, you point it out for me if you care to. — Wallows

How in the name of Hell am I supposed to know how you think? It's not my responsibility to think through your habits, it's your responsibility. Well, it is if you actually want to fight it, rather than giving the mere appearance of fighting it and leaving it at that.

Ok, sorry for coming off awry. Thanks for your input!

Ok, sorry for coming off awry. Thanks for your input! — Wallows

No need for the apology.

Rather than apologising I'd rather you dropped what I suspect is a euphemism. Thank you for your input, really? This is what customer services tell clients they want to fuck off.

Rather than apologising I'd rather you dropped what I suspect is a euphemism. Thank you for your input, really? This is what consumer services tell clients they want to fuck off. — fdrake

Uhh, not intended as that. I gave you or myself or whatever the case may-be the impression that the problem was solved, which it hasn't, and hence, I'm backing off on the cavalier attitude to solve this issue as if it can be solved via an online forum, as you seemingly suggested, it just can't.

@Wallows Sorry you're going through that. I've been there a few times, it sucks. I think fdrake has the right approach, in terms of looking at what brought you there very clearly.

I don't know if this will help at all - thoughts are viscous and weird when you're there, this is abstract - but there's an idea that suicidal thought is a final temptation before actual, beneficial, change. It's like you have a set of interrelated thoughts and habits that is no longer working, and is ripe for sloughing off. But the mind is so resistant to shedding battle-tested armor that it gets confused and tries to preserve the armor even at the cost of what the armor was initially meant to protect.

You could also think of the pain and confusion as a corrosive element dissolving the old skin - if you just hang on long enough, and attend as best you can to what's happening, you'll come out on the other end better equipped.

The paradox is it has to seem really bleak before you're willing to let go of what seemed protective but is now hurting.

Last time I went through a suicidal spell, I came out the other side with a girlfriend (which had been, to me, an impossibility) and a clear awareness of what blocks me. It didn't lift the blocks entirely, but it did lay a minimal groundwork for moving forward. Anecdotal evidence, naturally, but at least sometimes it works itself out.

In any case, I hope you feel better.

I’d be interested in knowing how you feel from chatting here. Has it been beneficial in any way?

Yeah, the thought seems to have subsided. It's like some form of twisted self-therapy, where they emerge and I have to start appreciating what I have or what have you. I don't know how else to put it. I suppose I need a girlfriend or something of that sort to keep me in check.

Immensely. This is probably the only place on the internet, where you can open up and try and form some coherent whole of what's going on. Laying down the negative thoughts helps a great deal and them combating them with rationality is helpful, to say the least.

Star Wars. I want to see the next film. Sounds silly, but that's an example of a genuine thought I've had when contemplating suicide.

Star Wars. I want to see the next film. Sounds silly, but that's an example of a genuine thought I've had when contemplating suicide. — S

Ehh, thoughts. Aren't they all silly?

I'm sure I can make it to the next Star Wars film. :blush:

When I was younger I used to spend a lot of time behind a computer screen. I still do, but I have balanced it with other activities.

Playing video games, while listening to music, checking news sites, social media, etc. As you undoubtedly know these things cause your body to produce dopamine. If one introduces too much dopamine for too long, the brain becomes desensitized and no longer experiences stimulation from the dopamine the body can naturally produce.
Another effect can be stress and anxiety, produced by the speedy, continuous feed of information one may feel forced to keep up with ("fear of missing out", for example). As you undoubtedly know also, stress can cause depression or worsen its symptoms.

If this sounds in any way familiar to you, I would recommend spending a couple of hours a day away from the screen doing other, less overstimulating things. Go outside and read a book, perhaps listen to music that relaxes you. Take a walk or engage in physical exercise. If your disability disallows you from physical exercise, try mental exercise, for example chess. Enjoy the small things in life. Watch a sunset or a beautiful skyscape. Sit by the lakeside and listen to the water. These are just some suggestions.

Yeah, my issues with dopamine go pretty deep. As a child I had some pretty bad ADHD, as an adult now I have ADD-PI. I've tried numerous drugs to straighten me out; but, the only thing that I can safely take is now Strattera.

Sucks; but, it is what it is.

Buy an industrial sewing maching that sews leather (off ebay for super cheap) and start making the world's weirdest shoes.

Works for me.

Buy an industrial sewing maching that sews leather (off ebay for super cheap) and start making the world's weirdest shoes.

Works for me. — frank

Sounds like you found a niche in the shoe market. Lol, good luck!

Sounds like you found a niche in the shoe market. Lol, good luck! — Wallows

I would need some more stuff to do that.

Well I think I've mentioned that I've been diagnosed with depression before. And those sorts of thoughts are just a part of my life. They come in waves -- with crescendo's and valleys. It's just a part of the ride.

For myself at least nothing really helped me out of a bad spot. But medication and therapy helped me get through a bad spot. I never felt better really when things were wrong, but such effects made the affect feel less bad -- as if I could get to the next day.

I think that usually, for most folk, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. It's unfair that you have to go through that tunnel, but hey life was never fair. It's an odd waiting game where everything you can do is more indirect rather than direct -- it's not about feeling good now, it's about coping with a disconnection from your emotions now however you can do so.

And it's not the sort of thing that is cured in the sense of *erased* -- it's much more like a torn tendon. It goes away, and you learn to even run again, but you always feel it a little after the fact when the weather is awry.

EDIT: I guess in a way I mean you don't really combat them, you live with them. And through living with them they become less influential -- "combat" indicates something far too direct for something that actually works. It's a bit counter-intuitive, but seems to work for me.

Let it go. Those voices are demons that try to get us to deny life/reality

I've been struggling with suicidal thoughts since I was 15. Now, I am nearly 29 and the thoughts are reaching a crescendo. A lot of stuff has been going on; but, the persuasiveness of the thoughts are becoming too real. The rationale is that I don't feel like I'm in control of my life, and have to deal with too much crap going on around me. — Wallows

Is the problem due to the feeling that you don't have control, or is it because you think that you have even less control of your life then what you think other people have over their life? If it is the first then it sounds like you have some kind of phobia with dealing with certain issues in life and the angst in confronting (or even thinking about confronting) these issues are overwhelming you much like any object that one has a phobia of.

If it is the second issue then it is unlikely you are aware of how very little control most people have in their lives. Also to the best of my knowledge, everyone feels like they are given too much crap to deal with and they more or less deal with it by dealing with only as much of it as they can at a given time and by leaving the rest of it for another day.

The main motivating force is that I know I will die at some point of my life and having control as to when and how is quite appealing. The only reason why I do go on living instead of committing suicide is that I have a caring mother. It would be too much for her to handle for me to do such an act. Not that she wouldn't be able to cope with it; but, I don't want her to suffer because of my selfish act. — Wallows

One of the things they don't tell the general public at large about dying is there is a good probability that the last few minutes person is conscience before they die is likely the WORST few minutes of our lives that many of us will go through. The reason for this is that when oxygen gets cut off from the brain it can usually survive for 5 to 10 minutes without issue but it lasts longer than 10 minutes then the risks become greater and greater the longer the brain doesn't get oxygen to it that the person will have brain damage or can not be revived at all. The odd thing is that in an oxygen deprived environment the brain can survive up to an hour without oxygen (although it is almost a given that a person will lose conscience before their brain actually dies) since it the process of reintroducing oxygen to the brain that is traumatizing/potentially damaging to the tissues in our brains.

The point of this information is to explain that when people are dying they often don't go after their heart stops beating for a few minutes and people stop trying to revive them, they go several minutes later when their brain becomes too oxygen deprived to survive any longer. I could be wrong, but it is plausible that if someone is still conscience at this point (which is possible due to all the chemicals your body produces and all the other things it does when is going through a near death situation) that they would experience something like a combination of both asphyxiation/drowning and paralysis at the same time. I don't know if you have ever experienced a situation where you can't move or do anything and can't breath, but I believe it is likely as bad or worse then the anxiety of worrying when one might die.

Now, I have tried countless medications, therapy, and such; but, the thoughts are zapping away what little enthusiasm for life that I have. I am in a precarious state of wanting to go on and not wanting to go on.

It's been nearly fifteen years of trying to banish the bad thoughts away, yet, here I still am in this miserable state of existence. Any thoughts or help appreciated.

Please don't just focus on "me" here, as I do notice quite a few of these motifs around here too by other members. — Wallows

To be honest I had something to say when I first started writing this reply, but I think I forgot what it was by the time I got here. As a nihilist I really don't believe there is an ethical reason for a person to choose to live instead of offing themselves (since about 98-99.9% of us will never do anything important in our lifetime, and even the small number that do something it in and of itself may not really have been necessary), so I'm not the kind of person to blow sunshine up their backside in order for them to feel better about the way things are. Maybe reading dark humor demotivation posters or some Buddhism might help but then again they may not. I think many people just try one thing after another until they find something that works or at least until they get bored of doing that and merely digress into Hedonists and give up on any real purpose for anything. I'm not really sure how it is supposed to work. :P

I guess in a way I mean you don't really combat them, you live with them. And through living with them they become less influential -- "combat" indicates something far too direct for something that actually works. It's a bit counter-intuitive, but seems to work for me. — Moliere

So, you are talking about coping here, I think. Yes, I suppose this is the only way to live with depression. I have started numerous threads about depression, and have come to terms with it as best I could. I mean, it sucks that I will be this way; but, there's only so many medications or therapies one can trial before coming to the conclusion that the issue will always be a part of you.

Is the problem due to the feeling that you don't have control, or is it because you think that you have even less control of your life then what you think other people have over their life? If it is the first then it sounds like you have some kind of phobia with dealing with certain issues in life and the angst in confronting (or even thinking about confronting) these issues are overwhelming you much like any object that one has a phobia of. — dclements

I think you are right here. It is some phobia. I'm not sure what exactly a phobia of what. I think it has to do with wanting to live a life of ease without any hindrance in the form of responsibilities or duties to fulfill.

To be honest I had something to say when I first started writing this reply, but I think I forgot what it was by the time I got here. — dclements

Reminds me of: "Before I speak I have something important I want to say", by Groucho Marx.

Maybe reading dark humor demotivation posters or some Buddhism might help but then again they may not. I think many people just try one thing after another until they find something that works or at least until they get bored of doing that and merely digress into Hedonists and give up on any real purpose for anything. I'm not really sure how it is supposed to work. :P — dclements

What do you mean by hedonism? The usual connotation is someone that shoots up heroin every morning or such. Yet, in nature, I doubt you'd find many animals that actually behave this way, with purposeful intent to increase their hedonic impulse.

If Suicide is tempting, then presumably the solution might be to contemplate the mysterious state of suicide, such that with any luck one 'virtualises' the expected benefits of suicide, and thereupon no longer feels the urge to go through with it.

For example, imagine in as much detail as possible the experience of falling off a tall building and hitting the bottom, either through accident or willful suicide, and contemplate the resulting loss of perception, thoughts and memories. Any realistic contemplation of death should reject the association of any particular thought or experience with it. Hence this contemplation, which works with suicidal thoughts rather than fighting them, could potentially constitute a therapeutic process of "letting go" of everything, including introspection and suicidal thoughts.

Yes, in a sense. But not just coping like it's a cure.

I think I've mentioned this analogy before, but think of diabetes. There is no cure for diabetes. There are strategies for living with diabetes. Now if a cure comes along of course we'd be interested in taking it. But there is an undue amount of stress you can put yourself through by thinking that you'll be cured in your lifetime and once that cure finally comes through then I can get on with the process of living.

There are just some conditions that do not have a cure. And depression might be such a condition for yourself, as it is for myself. In which case all you can do is identify the symptoms, recognize them for what they are, and wait for them to lessen (or not, if they do not) while you go on living. It's just another thing to recognize as outside of your (direct) control.

It's just another thing to recognize as outside of your (direct) control. — Moliere

That's a bitter pill to swallow. There are countless ways to get into and out of depression. I admire the folk that is stuck in between and manages with it as best they can.

One of the best summations of Jung’s thoughts I’ve heard in a while:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CP1YOeNnZac

All boils down to a matter of willpower, which I have analyzed endlessly. People demand that the world change them, and in this sentiment, weakness is born. Quite Nietzscian.

Combating unwanted thoughts, suicidal or whatever else, requires one to understand the fact that you are not your thoughts. Many apparently unnoticed factors affect the mind, both conscious and unconscious or sub conscious, so you shouldn't go about taking responsibility for your thoughts.

All boils down to a matter of willpower, which I have analyzed endlessly. People demand that the world change them, and in this sentiment, weakness is born. Quite Nietzscian. — Wallows

As a sentiment perhaps. But willpower isn't a scientifically admissible cause of human action. Rather, willpower is the force one exerts in the pursuit of an incentive. Depressives most often lack the latter, rather than the former.

Most of suicidal case is beliefing they are do something wrong. but, in Philosophy there are no wrong, here in Philosophy everything is
acceptable so in other words 'The world is never work as we think'.