What would it mean for me to know and to experience that I have a completely free will?

What conditions would have to be met?

Ultimately, I think it means that I would have to have an indubitably certain consciousness that I am my own creation. For only if I know and directly experience that I am my own creation can I legitimately be held to be responsible for all my actions and all my omissions.

But, instead, as far as I can tell I had no say with respect to the fact that I exist and I had no say about who I would be. I have no consciousness and no experience of having participated in such matters.
Thus, the fact that I exist and the fact that I am who I am (i.e., my personality, my character) are simply experienced as brute facts over which I had no control.

Thus, it could be argued that there is no cogent basis for my feeling responsible for (i.e., either feeling guilty about or taking pride in) any of my actions or omissions, because both the former actions and the latter omissions are behaviors which must follow necessarily from and be pre-determined by the personality/character I have been given and the motives to which it must respond.

In short, a completely free will does not exist.

Freedom is accepting the world as it is and making the most out of it.

Freedom, as I understand it, is the absence of coercion. So it’s more a duty each of us have to refrain from coercing others. — NOS4A2

How do you do that? I understand that realistically it's impossible to never coerce anyone, but what do you think is the best way to coerce people the least?

Ultimately, I think it means that I would have to have an indubitably certain consciousness that I am my own creation. For only if I know and directly experience that I am my own creation can I legitimately be held to be responsible for all my actions and all my omissions. — charles ferraro

Hm. What if you completely transformed yourself into something else? Something more desirable and completely unrecognizable? Would that count as "being your own creation"?

Freedom is accepting the world as it is and making the most out of it. — Emma33

I got another response pretty similar to yours but a lot more complex in wording.

Like parcour, it helps to interact with everything not as an obstacle to avoid or overcome, but rather as a potential partner in achievement. This often means adjusting our plans to accommodate, even in the midst of executing them. We lose our sense of freedom when we fail to understand how a relationship has the potential for achievement from multiple perspectives. — Possibility

Is this kind of what you're getting at?

What would it mean for me to know and to experience that I have a completely free will? — charles ferraro

I get the feeling that we don’t want completely free will. Most of us cannot bear to take responsibility for the comparatively little freedom that we do have.

Within the confines of my existence and who I have become to this point (i.e. the personality/character I have ended up with), I have more freedom than I am aware of, and more freedom than I could want. Insomuch as I am conscious of my capacity to participate in this existence, I am more free.

Insomuch as I focus on the boundaries of my own existence, however - on the impact of the universe upon me - I have less freedom to speak of.

I agree that completely free will does not exist. For me to know and to experience that I have completely free will, I would have to BE the infinitely unfolding universe in its entirety. This is the desired experience of limited consciousness. Let me illustrate at a simpler level.

A stimulus-response existence initially perceives the physical organism as the infinite universe. Any external stimulus is then interpreted as either a boundary to that ‘universal’ existence (an indication of less freedom), or as evidence that there is more to the universe than first perceived: a freedom to explore and interact with a universe beyond that existence.

Once aware of the stimulus, there is a desire to go back to that initial perception of being the infinite universe, rather than to step forward into an unfamiliar universe and accept a broader experience of freedom. Regardless, the interaction cannot be undone, and so the choice with each interaction is to process the information as either more freedom or less.

I do not think the central issue is whether, or not, we want to have completely free will, or even our emotional reaction to having it. The question is whether, or not, we have it and what it consists of.

To claim that I am free because I can participate in this existence is like a prisoner contending that he/she is free because he/she can participate in prison life.

All your actions "operari" follow necessarily from who you are, your character, your "esse."

And you are absolutely free only if you chose your character, your "esse,"

The OP question is what it means to have freedom. I’m not disputing the fact that we don’t have completely free will, and I did say as much. But within that experience where our will is not completely free, there is still freedom - and more than we want.

A prisoner is still as free as they choose to be - just not in exactly the same way that you and I exercise our freedom. You can focus on the bars, or you can focus on the opportunities provided. That was my point.

And your ‘esse’ is only as rigidly defined as you decide. I think this idea that our character is entirely decided for us and then we are either allowed or not allowed by circumstances to ‘choose’ our pre-determined character is a failure to make effective use of our creative capacity as human beings.

The OP question is what it means to have freedom. — Possibility

I haven't been following what you guys are discussing exactly, but feel free to discuss whatever you like. I assure you I don't mind.

Being debt free while not being homeless and walking everywhere.

Persuade by means that do not involve force or threats.

Hypothetically, if you were to create or live in a new nation, what would you expect to be your basic freedoms? What would you expect to be obligated to do? What would you expect not to be able to do? — TogetherTurtle

All stemming from the overall freedom to violate the nation, as radical as that may get, though I would expect to not be able to go ahead and do purges but, instead, to be obligated to oppose malice and incompetence. In my view, a nation-state is a perversion of the potential of a polity, that insists on defining itself through its exceptions and thus disallows any kind of personal freedoms.

So what would you consider a threat? Obviously anything with hostile intent, but I think it's more culturally context sensitive than that. If you're a fat neckbearded manchild threatening to cut people in half on the subway with a katana, you'll be laughed at, but if you're a samurai in Japan during the 1400s, your threat might be taken more seriously.

Of course, those are maybe a bit too obvious as examples, but similar things do happen every day between people who experience the same culture. I remember plenty of edgelords in my school days that made "threats" they never intended to follow up on but got in trouble anyway. Not that I don't think they deserved trouble, but I also know that they were too cowardly to actually fight anyone.

Being debt free while not being homeless and walking everywhere. — Cris

Does debt just mean being in the black, or does it entail social debts to people that have helped you and debt to a society that assists you in maintaining your standard of life?

Just the lenders. Those are the ones that feel like shackels. I don't think I owe society anything that prevents or holds me back. The same way it helps me I hlep it. What do you consider a debt to society?

Just the lenders. Those are the ones that feel like shackels. I don't think I owe society anything that prevents or holds me back. The same way it helps me I hlep it. What do you consider a debt to society?
seconds ago

What do you consider a debt to society? — Cris

The support your parents give you (monetary or otherwise), the positive influences others have on you, and anything else along those lines. You could also acquire debt by breaking laws that protect against actions that are generally detrimental to society.

Generally, I think this is the debt that keeps us all together. If someone loves and appreciates you, you're compelled to give back.

Generally, I think this is the debt that keeps us all together. If someone loves and appreciates you, you're compelled to give back. — TogetherTurtle

Not everyone agrees with that, which is why people throughout history who have tried to undo some of the opression of self centered thinking have said things like: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Jesus also said, "you have heard it said to love your neighbor, but I say love your enemy. For if you only love those who do good to you, you are no different than those who opress you."(+/-) Why would Jesus say that? Because our debt is not to society, but to God. Loving God requires that you love your fellow man, even those whom you hate.

People may disagree, but what do people tend to do in practice? Typically people act as if there is no god in the moment and repent later. A belief in god doesn’t free one from being human.

If Jesus was real and did say that, I honestly think that he was right. It is beneficial for us to be nice to everyone. That isn’t what happens though.

Freedom for me would be the end of capitalism, the only power-system that still exists. If we got shot of that nonsense we could be could begin to think seriously rather than merely posture.

I'm sorry, what? Capitalism is business in your hands, with you at the helm. The only other option is to put it in the governments hands. How has that faired for anyone? There is a reason why people fled their countries to come to a capitalist nation. I'm pretty sire the people of Taiwan are happy with it. I'm pretty sure the people of South Korea are happy with it. They stand in stark contrast to their non capitalist neighbors. What do you mean capitalism is the only power system that still exists? Capitalism is not the only power system. The government still exists and it is a power system. If capitalism is a power system, it is at least one (maybe the only one) that you or anyone are free to be a part of, not as a consumer, but as a businessman or woman. It is there and it can set you free if you go at it with hard work, intelligence and a little luck. It is the American dream; that you can reap the rewards of your own labor. It is your right to succede or fail at you own hands. Capitalism is you succeeding because you did it, not because the government made you successful. Capitalism is you failing because you did it, not because the government caused you to fail. You are the power in the capitalist system.

People may disagree, but what do people tend to do in practice? Typically people act as if there is no god in the moment and repent later. A belief in god doesn’t free one from being human. — TogetherTurtle

What people are you speaking of? Faith in God does free you from acting a certain way. You no longer are indebted to anyone but Him, which frees you. Maybe I can explain it a little better. Societies are always changing and they all have different values. A debt to one society may be turning in your Jewish neighbor to the Nazis or pointing to where the Tutsi woman is hiding so tyour fellow Hutu can kill them. On top of that people are self-centered, and they will congregate with those like them, forming a society of like minded people. Even a good society has great potential of becoming ugly. If your debt is to society then it can very well be a debt of division and death. Christ said our debt is to God, and from that debt to Him flows a payment of love for everyone, even your enemies. That is the only thing that can hold us together. Of course people are going to be people, and act wrongly. You owe them nothing. But because you owe God, you love them anyway. You cannot worry about them. A profession does not make someone a Christian. Jesus said "they give me lip service but their hearts are far from Me," and, "you will know them by their fruits." As to did He exist, I would love to have that conversation, but not here, I think. If you would as well, let me know.

Hypothetically, if you were to create or live in a new nation, what would you expect to be your basic freedoms? What would you expect to be obligated to do? What would you expect not to be able to do? — TogetherTurtle

1, Freedom to eliminate waste.
2. Freedom to inhale air at any given time (provided it's necessary.)
3. Freedom to pursue the blue bird of happiness (restrictions apply: you may not catch it. You are only allowed to pursue it.)
4. Freedom to wear five pairs of shoes at the same time on either of your feet.
5. Freedom to assemble little electric cars that come in a kit.
6. Freedom from religion.
7. Freedom to attend school
8. Freedom from needing to learn Calculus and French Irregular verbs.
9. Freedom to establish personal boundaries, personal restrictions, and place control on others.
10.Freedom to sew up buttons when one falls off.

Cris - Capitalism is and economic system based on greed, where those who are most greedy have learned to brainwash, bully or kill everyone else, making it impossible for anyone to make moral decisions about anything. Typically, you have been brought to believe that there is some other system and, weirdly, that there is no choice. We don't need any of this crap if we are free beings. If we are all just programmed automata, end of discussion..

Listen, while I'd love to discuss religion and capitalism with you guys, I know for sure that doing it publicly on this thread will blow us too far off of topic. I know you're very adamant about your respective positions, and I know they definitely overlap with the topic, but it would be irresponsible of me to let this devolve into pointless bickering. If you would like to start a group discussion via PMs, that would probably be ideal.

1, Freedom to eliminate waste.
2. Freedom to inhale air at any given time (provided it's necessary.)
3. Freedom to pursue the blue bird of happiness (restrictions apply: you may not catch it. You are only allowed to pursue it.)
4. Freedom to wear five pairs of shoes at the same time on either of your feet.
5. Freedom to assemble little electric cars that come in a kit.
6. Freedom from religion.
7. Freedom to attend school
8. Freedom from needing to learn Calculus and French Irregular verbs.
9. Freedom to establish personal boundaries, personal restrictions, and place control on others.
10.Freedom to sew up buttons when one falls off. — god must be atheist

Sounds like you have most of those already depending on where you live.

By the way, you can catch the bird, you just can't keep it as a pet.

By the way, you can catch the bird, you just can't keep it as a pet. — TogetherTurtle

Well... as far as I'm concerned, a blue bird of happiness in the hand is worth more than two blue birds of happiness in the bush.

Beyond the physical freedom of not being physically restricted or coerced: we're all unfree.

Freedom doesn't really mean anything to me besides freedom *from* certain things. I don't believe in my freedom *to* do anything. I do everything unfreely, as does everybody else, whether they realize it or not.

I mean, here's my argument against free will:

(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.

Allow me to define freedom on the hypothetical grounds of truth, beauty and goodness:
Freedom is having the ability to do 'good' anytime, anywhere without limit. Therefore any place that restricts and limits the application of goodness cannot be called 'free'.

I'm just gonna add a totally unrelated quote here:

If one must be absolutely free, then another must become an absolute slave.

We are only free in our reason.