Nike planned to celebrate the Fourth of July with a new sneaker, a special edition of the Air Max 1 Quick Strike featuring that most patriotic of symbols: an American flag. ... On Tuesday, Nike canceled the release of the sneaker, again plunging headlong into the nation’s culture wars. ... The abrupt cancellation came after Colin Kaepernick, the former National Football League quarterback and social justice activist, privately criticized the design to Nike ... [Mr. Kaepernick is a Nike 'brand ambassador"]
Using Kaepernick's reasoning, we should conclude that the Romans and Americans are both fascist since we were all using a symbol attached to 20th century fascism. — Bitter Crank
it illustrates that symbols and icons, just like words (think of the N-word, for instance) can't always be claimed by their users to mean what they want them to mean — Pierre-Normand
That’s a persuasive point and if it means that words can’t always be claimed by their users to mean what they want them to mean then what next? — Brett
On the other hand, using your own reasoning, it ought to be perfectly alright for Nike to put zwastikas on their shoes since the zwastika was an ancient Eurasian religious icon before it historically came to be associated with the German Nazi party. This may be a more extreme case, but it illustrates that symbols and icons, just like words (think of the N-word, for instance) can't always be claimed by their users to mean what they want them to mean or what they originally meant when they were first created. — Pierre-Normand
Using Kaepernick's reasoning, we should conclude that the Romans and Americans are both fascist since we were all using a symbol attached to 20th century fascism. Round up those old dimes and destroy them. Smash Racism! — Bitter Crank
Just because some Americans out on the far right used it is no reason to be embarrassed about it. — Bitter Crank
I don't expect to see a swastika on a Nike shoe or a VW car anytime in the near future. 250 years from now? It's quite possible that the swastika will be a neutral symbol by that time. Betsy Ross is about as far back in time. — Bitter Crank
And PN - the "N-word," by which you mean "nigger" but are too coy to say, has always been a degrading term for black people. — T Clark
The complaint was about Nike's use of a flag that had more recently been appropriated by white supremacists, regardless of Ross' personal politics. — Pierre-Normand
Isn’t it possible that by doing this they’re allowing white supremacists to take ownership of the flag. Shouldn’t they resist this by actually using it themselves. If you let them own it then it will, like the swastika, become an emblem of what their beliefs and consequently be avoided as seems to be happening. This seems counter productive to me.. — Brett
but it illustrates that symbols and icons, just like words (think of the N-word, for instance) can't always be claimed by their users to mean what they want them to mean — Pierre-Normand
And just because you (or whoever else) think(s) about something in a particular way that might be connected to particular historical facts, that in no way suggests that the way you think about it is correct or that it's the way any arbitrary other people do or should think about it. — Terrapin Station
Its not just because *I* personally think that a word has a certain connotation by dint of contingent that it has this connotation. — Pierre-Normand
Words, symbols mean or do not mean something solely based on how individuals think about them. It's not just Pierre-Normand. My "you" was the "generic you." — Terrapin Station
How individual people come to judge what words mean also is dependent on social facts regarding how they are conventionally used. — Pierre-Normand
Using Kaepernick's reasoning — Bitter Crank
Political correctness is a rabbit hole from which especially large corporations cannot get out of once they have engaged in the PC discourse and taken a 'political' stance (like Nike) and especially when they have given 'woke people', who typically are somewhat ignorant about history, the authority to decide on these issues. It's a very stupid strategy as basically 'woke' people in general don't like large corporations and consumerism. Trying to appease the PC crowd will simply backfire. It's like the state Church trying to appease socialists and assume they are in 'the same boat' if both are concerned about issues like povetry. A true socialist is an atheist, and atheists simply aren't going to start liking religious organizations, especially those with some formal power.Just because some Americans out on the far right used it is no reason to be embarrassed about it. - Anything about the American Revolution, the US Government before 1865, and the flag of the United States could be associated with slavery. Slavery is a fact of our history. Racism (and sexism, heteronormativity, class oppression, ruthless exploitation, and numerous other features) have been part of our history from the get go. - Colin Kaepernick was not performing a public service. He was performing a familiar sleight of hand — Bitter Crank
[my bold and emphasis above]So a way to determine how many S's are thinking x as a symbol of some particular y is to survey S's,
preferably outside of some other S trying to presently persuade them to see x as a symbol of y
(because then we might instead only be learning about the influence, or about how S wants to position themselves socially, re alignments and so on, rather than learning whether S was really thinking about x as a symbol of y). — Terrapin Station
None of you are Nike's target audience so it's really funny that you think they should give a shit what you think — Maw
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